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Upgrading machines? thinking of Kitamura VMC with Yasnac control.

cgmaster

Cast Iron
Joined
Jun 9, 2008
Location
Ocean Springs, MS
I have a chance to get a Kitamura mycenter 4 with YAsnac I-80m control. It seems to be in excellent condition and has been serviced regularly. It is a 1998 model and has 4th and 5th axis, tool setting probe, spindle probe, spindle chiller, chip conveyor and 30 tool changer. The machine was holding under .0005" tolerances on the last inspection report about a year ago.

I can get it very cheap. All the ways look great and everything seems to work.

I think this would be a upgrade to my Milltronics VM17 with Centurion 6 control which has served me well so far. Does anyone have any opinions or suggestions.

I have no idea if I would even use the 5th axis but the 4th could come in handy. I think I would just use it as a 4th axis with tailstock on some projects.

I also have no idea on the probing. I have never used it or seen it used. I wouldn't even know what to use it for.

I mainly program using inventor with HSM for programming. I only do very simple programs on the mill. I like the Milltronics conversational programming for simple parts and processes though. I don't think Yasnac has anything like that.
 
My opinion is based on my 2001 Mycenter 1 with an I-80m control. The m designates it as a J300 control, which is an I-80 with certain options. Does it have high speed machining, ie a JCP05 card, this turns Clark Kent into Supermachine. Without it mine will start to round corners at 80 ipm, with it on it will start to slow down around corners around 200 ipm but keep them sharp, the difference in accuracy is totally amazing!!!

Pros
Solid, well built machines with good phone tech support from Kitamura for the life of the machine. There is no "registration" fee for a new owner.
Very fast and stiff in the cut, it will spoil you.
Big fine pitch ball screws.
Excellent spindle.
Box ways. Big plus for a used machine in my opinion.
Yasnac manuals are available online for download, and pretty easy to read.
Very good control, considering it is 20 years old.
FAST rapids with snappy accel/decel.
I have only had to buy one part from Kitamura, a filter for the way oil pump, and it was dirt cheap.


Cons
The control has been obsolete for 14? years so technical help is not very good. Yasnac never did applications help so they are not very informative. You will need to contact them for supplemental info on the options your machine has, this is not in the online manuals.
Kitamura didn't make many machines with the J300 control so tech help is pretty limited, to nonexistent, for the options that make it a J300. You better learn about the Ethernet or extended memory, if it has it, and the probes from the current owner because you may not be able to get any info from anyone else. If you do not get the Kitamura manuals and schematics you may/ will be in trouble.
Lots of way oil in the coolant, lots.
Long warm up times for the spindle if you don't use it regularly. The spindle oiler does not like to sit. If it has not been ran for a week you are supposed to warm it up for 4 hours before using it. When I asked the tech about this he affirmed it is needed.
Fast rapids are hard on the way covers. Kitamura does not sell parts, only new way covers. Hennig is a source for parts but may not have all of them. Parts being rubber bumpers that take a beating and wiper seals.
RS232 is maxed at 9600 baud. If this machine has Ethernet make sure you know how to get it working, and post it hear to help us who don't know. Ethernet only works with XP or older operating systems.

Other than general condition check that the spindle is perpendicular with the table. There are no gibs on the head clamps so when the turcite wears you have to pull the clamps off and machine/ scrape them to account for the wear.
Make sure you back up the parameters in the control.

I use Fusion 360 to program so if you get this machine let me know and I will give you my posts. The one Autodesk offers is DOG SHIT for amateurs, IMO. Mine are pretty good but far from perfect.
 
Thank you. I am very interested in the extended memory and ethernet options. I know it has a RS232 port but have not seen and ethernet port. I am used to using memory cards to transfer info from my computer to my machines.

I will look tomorrow for a JCP05 card.

When I spoke to Kitamura They said the they do not lock options out of the controls? I assumed it had macros, rigid tap and helical interpolation and others enabled?

IT did not have any documentation with the machine, somehow was lost, however Kitamura said they have all the manuals and documents on file for the machine which I could get. The probes I am concerned about and any stored programs for canned cycles etc. The machine has been in storage for a little over a year so I assume the battery is dead. The owner guaranteed everything on the machine however and wrote up a 30 day warranty he will cover any parts and labor for everything to be working and machine to be in spec. He even offered to load it and transport it to my shop on one of his trucks.

I would appreciate any info or the post if you have it. Anything I get you are welcome to copies of as well.
 
I have a question on the control. When I looked up Yasnac J300 the control looks different in pictures I saw. This one has the control in the following picture. I have photos of the control cabinet but I can't make out the writing on my pictures.

The Kitamura service rep said the machine had the high speed machining control on it.Kitamura 1.jpgMessage_1507243104809.jpg


This is the control cabinet
 

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Kitamura is a nice machine, and when new, the Yasnac i80M was a VERY fast control. I don't think they make them anymore, so you may have to investigate for parts/support.
 
What the control looks like depends on the MTB. From the outside they are the same, the difference is in the option cards. Both control cabinet photos show the cards I am talking about. Extended memory on my machine is JCP01B and Ethernet is JCP02B. The extended memory can only be accessed with the Ethernet, I THINK. You can't load programs on the Compact Flash 2 card at your computer and slip it in, I wish that were the case. You are limited on card size, something like 120-160 megs. Ethernet port is a 15 pin Sub-D port.

Being stored for so long is hard on the batteries so that may be an issue if they were old to begin with. There are 2 for the control and 1 for the tool changer on my machine. They are 3.7 volt and mine alarmed out at 2.7 volts, that was a week long panic. They shipped from Utah but went to New York before comming to Washington.

If you get it give me your email address and I will tell you what documents you want from Yasnac and email you the posts. Kitamura isn't so secretive so I can include the documents they have given me, Yasnac on the other hand asked that I don't pass them on to anyone.

I think they are good machines that are worth putting some money into if needed so you may have found a jewel. Do you know how much memory it has? If you have problems you may need more than 30 days to get them sorted out. One of the first things you will need to do is bleed the air out of the spindle oiler system. If you get air in it the most likely issue will be the top bearing won't get any oil since it has the smallest port, and you won't know until it dies. It took me about 2 hours when I did it.

I hope you have a good compressor because mine uses about 11 cfm at 60 psi when running, which is normal.
 
No problem on air.

My email is hidden

We don't know how much memory it has. Have not been able to start it up. They don't have power to run it which is my main concern.

I have found a company that sells extended memory I think it was 2 meg for about $2k. I think I would go ahead and add it if it had less than 1 meg on board.

LOL I was looking for a different type of internet port (like on a normal computer). I think there is one on one of the cards in the cabinet.
 
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Not a good idea to have your email address on the internet like this, bots are always crawling for this stuff. I got your pm so I have it. I doubt it will have a meg, mine has 500k of memory. Memex is a company that sells larger memory, and they have a nice writeup on how to back up the control.
 
Thank you I didn't think about that. I deleted it.

Memex I think was who I was looking at for memory. Is it possible to upgrade the memory card also? Would doing these make a big difference? I assume with us using it with HSM the memory would be needed.

I haven't seen any many machines in good condition that I could get into for under $20k setup. I wish it had newer Fanuc control but haven't heard anything bad about Yasnac yet.
 
If it has Ethernet and you can figure it out then I would think you would be fine. I have no idea about increasing the memory card size it can use, it may have something to do with it being a 20 year old computer which is just a fact of life. With the speed of the RS232 port it takes about 40 minuts to fill the 500k on my control. I don't do large programs but if I did I would be spending more time figuring out the Ethernet. Neither Kitamura or Yasnac are much help with it, too long ago for one and the other never did applications assistance. At least with Kitamura I got a pdf file on it, and a good bit of info in the manual on how to use the Yasnac program for Ethernet, which I have.

If you get this machine I doubt there is too much you can do other than learn to use what you have.

I have 2 Yasnac machines, a J50 and J300, of 1996 and 2001 vintage. The only bad thing I can say about them is slow RS232 communications, other than that I love them, for what they are.
 
I was looking at the memex site they apparently sell a Ethernet board fit yasnac i80m I tried to contact them today to find out about adding it sand 2 meg memory I am waiting for then to get back to me.
 
Before calling Memex, practice opening your wallet and dumping out all the cash a few times...

Quote for the 2 meg upgrade was a little under $1900. My machine only has 64 meg onboard. I was thinking this would be needed for running high speed profiles and storing larger programs. I am waiting to hear a quote on the ethernet connection and more info on it.

I am curious about adding a larger PCMCIA card also if this is possible.

I am not sure which upgrades would be best for my uses. I think the extra memory would help HSM profiles.
 
Just for clarification purposes.. You have 64 megs... and want to add 2 megs for
$1900. So that means you already have $60,800 worth of memory????

Sell the memory, scrap the machine.

A 16 GIG card for my phone was $8 free shipping.
 
today spoke to a few people and think I found a way to drip feed or DNC to I80MB controller at 38400. Possibly faster. Keeping my fingers crossed. Apparently YAsakawa had special software and connection through a second serial port which included a 16k buffer to enable high speed machining they developed for mold work.

Also with the addition of the 2 meg memory I thin this should get the machine up to acceptable speeds for some HSM work.
 
Is this the binary RS232? I have heard that some controls could communicate at 38400 but I tried and mine will not. By the way my mill was set up for binary RS232 when I got it. Info on this is covered in one of the secret Yaskawa pdfs.
 
David just curious what did you change in you Fusion generic Yasnac post? I have a Matsuura with i80.
 








 
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