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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    sorry I missed the diameter reference. the parts your looking at are ideal parts for a Mori SL1/SL2, SL2 would be better to take heavier cuts. If your concerned about newer controls, I've seen SL3's with fanuc 0M controls, there are probably SL2's with fanuc 0M's as well. That's a very nice control.

    I wouldn't be concerned about Mori's with older fanuc controls.

    Any mori can take Gcode via a cable, very old controls may need a BTR to transfer programs (late 70's early 80's), but any running lathe should have had a BTR added by now.

    For the record, he meant "0T" controls on the SL's.


    And for the record, I would dissagree 100% that the "0" is a very nice control.
    It is the cheapest entry level that Fanuc made, and an old one of those (90's, especially early to mid 90's) is cumbersome to run to say the least.

    A newer 0i may be much better. (???)

    I will take a 16/18 control miles before suffering with an early "0".

    With that said tho - it would easilly doo anything that you want to doo, and be as reliable as anything dooing it.

    You could git a 90's mill and lathe for $30K.



    ---------------------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    I have a Mori with a 10M and a friend has one, same year, with an OM. I fucking hate that OM. The 10M is great and I had a choice when I bought my MV-65B to get the one next to it, in nicer shape for the same money with an OM. I talked to the guys who ran them and they HATED using the OM machine. That's why the 10M one looked rougher. Because it was used more by choice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    For the record, he meant "0T" controls on the SL's.

    And for the record, I would dissagree 100% that the "0" is a very nice control.
    It is the cheapest entry level that Fanuc made, and an old one of those (90's, especially early to mid 90's) is cumbersome to run to say the least.

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Correct my mistake.

    I have a Makino RMC55 with an 0M control, I really like that control, not sure why the 0m doesn't get any love. other than a new motherboard every 8 or so years it's been easy to use and reliable.

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    Having been through a similar situation I will be the odd man out and recommend you keep subbing out your parts for now while you focus on growing your business in other ways. Once you bring your production in-house it will very likely keep you very busy. I know for me it did and was not able to spend the time needed for future product development or build my customer base. Now finally after 4 years I have my in-house prossces dialed and can work on other stuff. I wish I would not have rushed to bring my parts in-house in the end. At the time it seemed like having these parts subbed out was costing a lot of money and it was but there was also value it added I could not see at the time.

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    Another option to cut your initial cost is to lease a machine.

    Tom

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    Quote Originally Posted by B-Mathews View Post
    Having been through a similar situation I will be the odd man out and recommend you keep subbing out your parts for now while you focus on growing your business in other ways. Once you bring your production in-house it will very likely keep you very busy. I know for me it did and was not able to spend the time needed for future product development or build my customer base. Now finally after 4 years I have my in-house prossces dialed and can work on other stuff. I wish I would not have rushed to bring my parts in-house in the end. At the time it seemed like having these parts subbed out was costing a lot of money and it was but there was also value it added I could not see at the time.
    Thanks, I did note this isn't a possibility for me. There are many reasons, but it's down to either not producing the parts and walking away from customers contacting me every week....or making them myself. Quality of individual parts is always there, but when things happen it's always left to me to fix them. If I'm going through this level of effort already I just won't pay shops to do this any longer. I've been through about 6 shops, and I couldn't do repeat business with any of them.

    No one has pre-ordered products yet, so I have time to get everything right, even if it takes a year people can or will wait. So relatively I'm done with the shop method and ready to bring things in-house.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TDegenhart View Post
    Another option to cut your initial cost is to lease a machine.

    Tom
    It's not impossible, I could also just pay more and buy a new machine. However with my current product and sales, it just doesn't make financial sense to do that. In a year or so it might and I may be flipping this current machine and buying something awesome new in cash. But currently I don't want to take that risk, either with cash or credit.

    Resell value also means some to me because of that, but in a year a $30k machine would have paid itself off a few times and I should have a mill as well by the end of the year...assuming all goes well. If things don't then no huge debt problems for me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by droshi View Post
    Thanks, I did note this isn't a possibility for me. There are many reasons, but it's down to either not producing the parts and walking away from customers contacting me every week....or making them myself. Quality of individual parts is always there, but when things happen it's always left to me to fix them. If I'm going through this level of effort already I just won't pay shops to do this any longer. I've been through about 6 shops, and I couldn't do repeat business with any of them.

    No one has pre-ordered products yet, so I have time to get everything right, even if it takes a year people can or will wait. So relatively I'm done with the shop method and ready to bring things in-house.
    Haha, Same reason I ended up doing what did to bring the parts in-house. That said after being around the game for a while I do know there could have been several shops that could have done the work to my standards every time.You just need to know how to spec everything and have a contract. What kind of quantity are you have done for each part at a time? If the numbers are really low I agree most shops want wast there time or give you the attention to detail you deserve. Anyways I bet there are guys on this forum that could turn your parts and meet your specs every time. It kind of common around here actually.

    If your set like I was to buy a machine and do them in house Listen to the guys recommending the Older Mazak Lathes you can program at the machine. VS having to learn Cam at the same time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by B-Mathews View Post
    Haha, Same reason I ended up doing what did to bring the parts in-house. That said after being around the game for a while I do know there could have been several shops that could have done the work to my standards every time.You just need to know how to spec everything and have a contract. What kind of quantity are you have done for each part at a time? If the numbers are really low I agree most shops want wast there time or give you the attention to detail you deserve. Anyways I bet there are guys on this forum that could turn your parts and meet your specs every time. It kind of common around here actually.

    If your set like I was to buy a machine and do them in house Listen to the guys recommending the Older Mazak Lathes you can program at the machine. VS having to learn Cam at the same time.
    Yes, generally batches have been 50-100 units (4 custom machined parts). I think they want to setup, and break down everything as fast as possible (totally understandable)...but it makes fixes harder. Anyway, I don't really want to complain about shops, I know there are much better ones out there....though I went through a large range of paying for the parts. The higher priced places sometimes were worse, since they did think it was beneath their time and maybe just weren't interested in them.

    In the end, I feel now I just need the control, and that once I get things dialed in, I'll be OK. I'm prepared for it to take any amount of time. Most of the time, I would be quoted a month to get the parts, but it would take 3-12 months to actually have them in hand, and done. So if I can do it before that time frame, I'll be ahead of where I was.

    I've already spent a lot of time learning the CAM side of Fusion 360, so I do want to follow through if I can get a machine and setup a shop in my budget. I think of it as a long-term investment that should make me a better designer as well.

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    The OP mentioned PARTING OFF 3 inch diameter parts, which means a somewhat bigger machine than he's likely to find for under $30K.
    OTOH, since ease of programming isn't much of a concern running production, as long as he can edit at the machine an old time tape-reader would do it...which brings the cost down considerably. The problem will be finding iron with 3 inches thru the draw tube and a decent chuck...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwrench View Post
    The OP mentioned PARTING OFF 3 inch diameter parts, which means a somewhat bigger machine than he's likely to find for under $30K.
    OTOH, since ease of programming isn't much of a concern running production, as long as he can edit at the machine an old time tape-reader would do it...which brings the cost down considerably. The problem will be finding iron with 3 inches thru the draw tube and a decent chuck...
    That is a good point. I don't think hanging a long slug out there and parting off 3" is going to work that well. Unless it's 303???

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    there is a difference between programing in the cam software and what actually works,
    lathe and mill turn packages aren't as good as the mill packages,
    what it does on your computer can be quit different from what
    the g code generated by the post processor spits out.

    one reason why I got a mazak lathe, no need for cam software.

    second thing is you have to figure out how to actually make the part
    that's the tricky part, maybe you buy stock ground to size for largest
    diameter cut slugs on a saw and face one side to make blanks that you then flip and
    do the other side.
    well with in the capabilities of a QT15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwrench View Post
    The OP mentioned PARTING OFF 3 inch diameter parts, which means a somewhat bigger machine than he's likely to find for under $30K.
    OTOH, since ease of programming isn't much of a concern running production, as long as he can edit at the machine an old time tape-reader would do it...which brings the cost down considerably. The problem will be finding iron with 3 inches thru the draw tube and a decent chuck...
    Parting off would actually not be needed the full amount, I'll profile the 3.25" down on the back side that gets parted off, and there will be approximately a 0.75" hole in the center.

    I also don't need 3.5" through hole, since a 3" piece length could make 5-6 parts, and maybe I can turn up to 6" length without a tailstock? Either way I would plan to not need through spindle throwing such a large bar around. Open for ideas there certainly, and if I did get a machine that allowed that stock through spindle I'd try it out! I just assumed I couldn't afford it

    Quote Originally Posted by Garwood View Post
    That is a good point. I don't think hanging a long slug out there and parting off 3" is going to work that well. Unless it's 303???
    Has to be 304 or better since it's a food item.


    Quote Originally Posted by 72bwhite View Post
    there is a difference between programing in the cam software and what actually works,
    lathe and mill turn packages aren't as good as the mill packages,
    what it does on your computer can be quit different from what
    the g code generated by the post processor spits out.

    one reason why I got a mazak lathe, no need for cam software.

    second thing is you have to figure out how to actually make the part
    that's the tricky part, maybe you buy stock ground to size for largest
    diameter cut slugs on a saw and face one side to make blanks that you then flip and
    do the other side.
    well with in the capabilities of a QT15
    I understand, but I need to make CAM work. I can't keep that kind of logic for my product in a controller that might fail, especially if it's old. I don't see the cycles as being trivial so I really want them in a computer. I don't mind learning G-code to tweak what CAM outputs, but in the beginning I'll need to tune my CAM to get what I'm looking for.

    I think I have a decent plan for making my part. The real challenge is my off-center hole, even with live tooling I can't thread mill it as I would be machining it from the underside and I can't figure out how to do a 1/8" NPT thread mill from the back. Second op seems needed on a mill or maybe a drill press if I'm lucky and that works.

    I'll also consider hiring someone to train me whatever route I go, helping me get my CAM setup in my machine. I see this as a valuable expenditure. Again I don't expect to be up and running before about 3 months.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Oldwrench View Post
    The OP mentioned PARTING OFF 3 inch diameter parts, which means a somewhat bigger machine than he's likely to find for under $30K.
    OTOH, since ease of programming isn't much of a concern running production, as long as he can edit at the machine an old time tape-reader would do it...which brings the cost down considerably. The problem will be finding iron with 3 inches thru the draw tube and a decent chuck...
    Maybe further between, but I don't think that they will cost a whole bunch extra for 3".
    Anything with an A2-8 spindle will take the 3" bar.
    They are out there....


    Here is one. No listed price, and I have no clue how old that model is, but it is listed with an A2-8 and a 3.54" "Spindle Bore". Now doo not cornfuse "spindle bore" with "Bar Capacity" as spindle bore usually means - without the drawbar in.

    Unless you are using a scroll chuck, you need the draw tube. However, if you go with a scroll chuck, you can pick up any 65mm "bar" machine and yank the draw tube and be in business.

    OKUMA LC4-1SC CNC Lathes #411313 - MachineTools.com



    HAAS SL-3T CNC Lathes #44795 - MachineTools.com


    Looks like you need to git into the 24-30" swing capacity to git that bar capacity - for the most part.

    CNC Lathes for sale listings - MachineTools.com




    --------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Thanks for the links, it is hard to find out exactly what to look at, there are a lot available, but checking out Mazak for example, looks like I should find an EIA ready controller, which no guarantees which ones have it? Maybe wouldn't be expensive to add, so I don't know if it should break a deal.

    Fanuc also looks like it's more or less ready to go with g-code from what others have said here, but will have to see. Maybe I can keep a program with me to load and test on potential machines.

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    I know you talked about not sending them out. I think you should think hard about spending 30 grand on a used machine to produce parts. Look at core business, core business is selling the parts not making the parts. You dont care who or how they are made you care that you have them to sell. I am betting that by the time you get a used lathe sitting in your shop all tooled up and running and you succesfully producing saleable products from it you will be in deeper than 30 grand even if you dont value your time at all. I outsource all of our production we dont do any of it in house. We make the prototypes and do all the r and d but we send everything out for production because I dont want to deal with the cost of owning high dollar cnc machines and honestly I dont want to run one. The last thing I want to do is stand in front of a cnc lathe all day listening to the pump howl. If you cant find shops that will run this part at an acceptable cost or quality maybe redesign it or reimagine how it can be produced. When we get a part that people dont want to make for one reason or another we sit with them and make changes to to it so it is easy to make and everyone makes a buck. We have been very successfull not doing any of the manufacturing in house. I honestly think this is why we have been succesfull we are leveraging the skills of people who are far more experienced than us and they have the equipment and know how to run it. Just a thought and I have been exactly where you are, sometimes outsourcing is a nightmare but it is not nearly as bad as insourcing all the headaches and costs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kpotter View Post
    I know you talked about not sending them out. I think you should think hard about spending 30 grand on a used machine to produce parts. Look at core business, core business is selling the parts not making the parts. You dont care who or how they are made you care that you have them to sell. I am betting that by the time you get a used lathe sitting in your shop all tooled up and running and you succesfully producing saleable products from it you will be in deeper than 30 grand even if you dont value your time at all. I outsource all of our production we dont do any of it in house. We make the prototypes and do all the r and d but we send everything out for production because I dont want to deal with the cost of owning high dollar cnc machines and honestly I dont want to run one. The last thing I want to do is stand in front of a cnc lathe all day listening to the pump howl. If you cant find shops that will run this part at an acceptable cost or quality maybe redesign it or reimagine how it can be produced. When we get a part that people dont want to make for one reason or another we sit with them and make changes to to it so it is easy to make and everyone makes a buck. We have been very successfull not doing any of the manufacturing in house. I honestly think this is why we have been succesfull we are leveraging the skills of people who are far more experienced than us and they have the equipment and know how to run it. Just a thought and I have been exactly where you are, sometimes outsourcing is a nightmare but it is not nearly as bad as insourcing all the headaches and costs.
    Well Said Potter. As they say the grass is not always greener on the other side. That said no body get get that through my thick head at the time. It took learning more about the industery as a whole before I figured it out.

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    If you plan on out sourcing, then you MUST SPELL OUT EXACTLY what is acceptable and what isn't. If material hardness is not critical, don't put it on the print, for example. Don't say every dimension is critical, for those that are not, list a target value and say "to suit tools" or similar so the supplier can decide how to make it. Include any features that are critical and mark them as such; that these will be periodically monitored during production and will be used by incoming inspection for acceptance or rejection. Specify the level of process inspection, one every 50 pieces or such. The list goes on. Get the supplier to buy in on these requirement, don't just dump them on him.



    Tom

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    Quote Originally Posted by droshi View Post
    Thanks for the links, it is hard to find out exactly what to look at, there are a lot available, but checking out Mazak for example, looks like I should find an EIA ready controller, which no guarantees which ones have it? Maybe wouldn't be expensive to add, so I don't know if it should break a deal.

    Fanuc also looks like it's more or less ready to go with g-code from what others have said here, but will have to see. Maybe I can keep a program with me to load and test on potential machines.
    '


    You are WAY too concerned about using your CAM on a 2 axis lathe, especially one that you are going to run dedicated work on, instead of creating new prog's every day.

    Most 2 axis lathe programs can be written on 4 pages of hand written code or less. Unless you have intertwined arc's all over the place, it is very easy stuff.


    ------------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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