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Thread: Used CNC Lathe

  1. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    in post #79 you said



    Evidently I was confused

    At that time I more-ly* read that to mean that his expected costs for such parts to be made in these qtys - would be in this price range. So for someone to want 2x that cost gives him sticker shock - and that much more incentive to roll his own. (opposite experience than Kevin)


    * has nothing to doo with that one hour TV news show, regardless if we are concerned about being Safer in this thread or not.


    ----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Last edited by Ox; 12-31-2017 at 11:38 AM.

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by triumph406 View Post
    in post #79 you said



    Evidently I was confused
    Apparently....why does the matter on which lathe or mill I should buy? Are you saying in a round about fashion I should give up on making my product?

    I have people ready to buy at the current price, I can get it made at the current price (from shops I don't exactly want to deal with in my price range....though even when I ventured out of that range I was even more disappointed by quality of the parts), or make it much cheaper myself with a lot more hassle and effort to get going, but ultimately more quality control.

    The way I've arrived at a retail price shouldn't be much of a concern at this point to you as a poster, especially publicly, if you want to ask what my product is and do your own research and give me advice or ask for a consulting deal, go for it, but why try to ask different questions and point out things you don't understand about what I did and why? You don't know the full story, because I haven't outlined it here. I don't mean to sound rude, but that's just the facts and if you're confused as to why I've made business decisions, you probably should be because I haven't shared them all here.

    Either way I'm going to look out for a used lathe at a good price that will work for me, if I can get a new VMC for my budget, I might go for that instead, but if it's used I'd rather have a used lathe at this point and find a different way to do the slanted pressure gauge hole. I was just thinking about the possibilities since a new Mini Mill or TM-1P starts at $30k, though not after you add some essentials.

  3. #123
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    but why try to ask different questions and point out things you don't understand about what I did and why? You don't know the full story, because I haven't outlined it here. I don't mean to sound rude, but that's just the facts and if you're confused as to why I've made business decisions, you probably should be because I haven't shared them all here.
    Because this is PM man.. One question always leads to another and then leads to another..

    This isn't a website that solely deals with how to get from a piece of bar stock to a finished part..

    Its a MANUFACTURING forum... PROFESSIONAL manufacturing forum... And I'm not saying you shouldn't be
    here because its professional.. I'm pointing out that "PROFESSIONAL" means you try and make money
    making stuff.

    Making money making stuff involves a WHOLE LOT MORE than RAW MATERIAL... MACHINING... FINISHED PART..

    Listen to these guys here.. What you are trying to do isn't new.. A lot of them have Been There
    and Done That, and they give their information freely..

    If someone says "that's not a good idea"... LISTEN to them...


    I've been a regular here for close to 15 years I'd guess. There have been hundreds if not thousands of
    people come here and ask for advice and then get all pissy because they didn't get the advice they wanted.
    If you don't like it, you wouldn't be the first, and you won't be the last... It'll happen again next week.

    Seriously.. LISTEN to everything these guys are saying.. And give the info they need to give you good
    advice.. This is by far and away the best place on the planet to get good advice on what you are trying to do.

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  5. #124
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    You might consider a confidentiality agreement with one or more of the respondents, show them what you want to do and ask their advice. Most of the people here started out with not much more or maybe less than where you have now and have built successful businesses. You seem to have the buzzwords for some of the machines and what they can do, but perhaps a little unrealistic about costs and processes. This is their livelihood. If they can squeeze out $.01 from their costs that's money in their pockets. But they are also realistic about ROI.

    Tom

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    I don't know enough to give advice on CNC lathes .. but think you might advertise Wanted A CNC lathe guy to check out a CNC lathe..perhaps out of town..Even if it cost you a grand it might be the good choice..

    2 Haas SL-3T CNC Lathe Chip Conveyor with Tailstock - heavy equipment - by dealer - sale

    Harrison Alpha 4T 15-3/4" x 5" CNC Gap Bed Turning Lathe - tools - by dealer - sale

    I think it best to buy from an owner with a machine under power...

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    Quote Originally Posted by droshi View Post
    if I can get a new VMC for my budget, I might go for that instead, but if it's used I'd rather have a used lathe at this point ...
    I'm curious as to why ? Thinking about your part, it's easier to find a decent vmc for a good price than it is to find a lathe. Plus if you can do it on a machining center, the vmc is more versatile. You can do lots of other stuff on a vmc, all you can do on a lathe is round parts. Plus the choices for nice small lathes are all piss-poor. Hardinge is great for tiny and there's good choices at 10" chuck and bigger but I can't think of any kinda-small lathes I'd want in the shop. If it were me, I'd go for an hmc - this is a perfect job for a 104 Ex-Cell-O !! but any sane person would just grab a Fadal. Box ways for your stainless, cheap price, decent performance, tons of spares, what's not to like ?

  8. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobw View Post
    Because this is PM man.. One question always leads to another and then leads to another..

    This isn't a website that solely deals with how to get from a piece of bar stock to a finished part..

    Its a MANUFACTURING forum... PROFESSIONAL manufacturing forum... And I'm not saying you shouldn't be
    here because its professional.. I'm pointing out that "PROFESSIONAL" means you try and make money
    making stuff.

    Making money making stuff involves a WHOLE LOT MORE than RAW MATERIAL... MACHINING... FINISHED PART..

    Listen to these guys here.. What you are trying to do isn't new.. A lot of them have Been There
    and Done That, and they give their information freely..

    If someone says "that's not a good idea"... LISTEN to them...


    I've been a regular here for close to 15 years I'd guess. There have been hundreds if not thousands of
    people come here and ask for advice and then get all pissy because they didn't get the advice they wanted.
    If you don't like it, you wouldn't be the first, and you won't be the last... It'll happen again next week.

    Seriously.. LISTEN to everything these guys are saying.. And give the info they need to give you good
    advice.. This is by far and away the best place on the planet to get good advice on what you are trying to do.
    I didn't say I wasn't listening to advice here, or only looking for what I want to hear. I was just trying to point out that some advice is given without full knowledge. To me that isn't accurate advice, and I don't think anyone should expect it to be.

    I do appreciate everyone's help, but on every other message board I've been a part of, which is many...usually a thread topic tries to stay on topic instead of constantly being pulled off topic. But however people want to go with things that's OK with me, I was just trying to ask for more on topic advice on the machines I should be looking at and who to contact. Again perfectly valid to tell me to just not buy anything and close up shop. Thanks!

  9. #128
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    I don't know what you said to the shops you "tried " to work with but a better approach might be:
    Make a proper drawing ,not a sketch but a professional mechanical drawing.The drawing must contain
    every detail.When you deliver it to a prospective shop say nothing.Most competent estimators can develope the most cost effective manufacturing procedure,that is their job,don't expect them to tell you how make your parts.Include quantities and delivery.Send it by email /fax/snail mail.Last thing a shop owner wants to hear is bla bla bla. Our time is money.
    If parts come back not to specifications detailed ,then the shop is responsible.If you think the price is too high,good luck.

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    QT:[some advice is given without full knowledge. To me that isn't accurate advice, and I don't think anyone should expect it to be.]

    Certainly that is true..nobody knows all the aspects of your part, budget,floor space,power limitations, experience and/or that of your partner.. just providing input hoping it might help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by droshi View Post
    I do appreciate everyone's help, but on every other message board I've been a part of, which is many...usually a thread topic tries to stay on topic instead of constantly being pulled off topic.
    But... On other forums you might get 5 responses at best. It has gone a little all over the place with lots of food for thought- what's to complain about. Based on what i have read though I still think you would not regret owning basic 2 axis lathe or a basic 3 axis mill. Go with the one you think you need most. Keep in mind your available power, how easy is rigging to come by in your area and take the weight of the machines into account. You won't likely be wanting to call the mfr's techs over to fix problems because they will charge you 1/3-1/2 of what you have in the machine and maybe still not fix it so get something with a good knowledge base. This all assumes you are of the mindset to jump in and work on things when problems arise.

    I can relate to wanting to do things yourself. From what I read it seems in some areas machine shop time is much more available than in my area.

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  13. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithmech View Post
    I don't know what you said to the shops you "tried " to work with but a better approach might be:
    Make a proper drawing ,not a sketch but a professional mechanical drawing.The drawing must contain
    every detail.When you deliver it to a prospective shop say nothing.Most competent estimators can develope the most cost effective manufacturing procedure,that is their job,don't expect them to tell you how make your parts.Include quantities and delivery.Send it by email /fax/snail mail.Last thing a shop owner wants to hear is bla bla bla. Our time is money.
    I give both 3D files of choice and CAD drawings with everything called out. For bids, no one has ever a question, in production, usually not many questions.

    Quote Originally Posted by keithmech View Post
    If parts come back not to specifications detailed ,then the shop is responsible.If you think the price is too high,good luck.
    That's pretty idealistic POV from my experience, especially when you have bank transferred or given a check that's deposited. There have been shops that would handle minor problems, but the latest problem really scared me away from doing it again as I get stuck with the repair when a major problem happens.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pete Deal View Post
    But... On other forums you might get 5 responses at best. It has gone a little all over the place with lots of food for thought- what's to complain about. Based on what i have read though I still think you would not regret owning basic 2 axis lathe or a basic 3 axis mill. Go with the one you think you need most. Keep in mind your available power, how easy is rigging to come by in your area and take the weight of the machines into account. You won't likely be wanting to call the mfr's techs over to fix problems because they will charge you 1/3-1/2 of what you have in the machine and maybe still not fix it so get something with a good knowledge base. This all assumes you are of the mindset to jump in and work on things when problems arise.

    I can relate to wanting to do things yourself. From what I read it seems in some areas machine shop time is much more available than in my area.
    I was referring to forums not machining related, just generally, but yes I certainly appreciate all the help given here and direction. I got a lot of good info to follow up on.

    Generally I think I'm up to the repair tasks, especially electrical and control related. Getting into mechanical problems I will have to have someone take a look if it's major. Any direction I go isn't exactly perfect, but I think I have a way forward to investigate now!

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    A) Y'ever git the feeling that some folks are skeered that you may be able to doo it yuhrself, minimizing their position?

    B) I would be very carefull even thinking about revealing your product on these pages. You could very easilly find yourself out of a product gap to fill quicker than you can say Rumpelstiltskin!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    A) Y'ever git the feeling that some folks are skeered that you may be able to doo it yuhrself, minimizing their position?

    B) I would be very carefull even thinking about revealing your product on these pages. You could very easilly find yourself out of a product gap to fill quicker than you can say Rumpelstiltskin!


    --------------------

    Nothing Changes on New Years Day
    Ox
    Haha, I don't think it's that though. I know it's a daunting task, but I've done difficult things before such that I know I can do it, it's really a matter of how long it will take. I also want to make sure I don't make a bad machine purchase and struggle on the machine side when I'm also trying to just learn machining. Good tools that are reliable mean a lot to me, especially while learning. While I don't think you need the best to learn on, having something with a big flaw can make you go crazy wondering what you're doing wrong when it's actually just the tool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by droshi View Post
    It's a somewhat established product, with reviews and is published,

    Then why not save a lot of grief and show us what the darned thing is?

    After 100+ posts maybe we could save you some time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 706jim View Post
    Then why not save a lot of grief and show us what the darned thing is?

    After 100+ posts maybe we could save you some time.
    I've been a part of several forums where no commercial posts are allowed, coming new here it didn't seem right to just post all about my product. I'll send you a PM, as mentioned earlier anyone was welcome to PM me to ask about it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by droshi View Post
    I've been a part of several forums where no commercial posts are allowed, coming new here it didn't seem right to just post all about my product. I'll send you a PM, as mentioned earlier anyone was welcome to PM me to ask about it.
    Ok, here are some of my thoughts:

    The most complex parts are basically a flat ring threaded onto a flat stub. Either could be made on a lathe or a VMC with some finishing (the holes)requiring a drill press or further VMC operations. From what I see, I would do the machining on one side (large threads) and then finish the other side in a second operation. To do this, you could screw the half finished part into (or onto) a fixture with mating threads for second op machining whether on mill or lathe. Now one problem with this idea is that the part is going to be "stuck" on said fixture. One way to get around this problem would be to have three or four flat headed set screws in the fixture that the semi finished part actually contacts. When the secondary machining is completed (facing the back side for example) you can loosen these set screws and the part easily unthreads.

    And as I mentioned in my response to your PM, I would seriously consider:
    a) farming the parts out while you set up shop and learn to run the CNC's and
    b)having the blanks cut by a metal supplier as discs and donuts rather than try parting them from large diameter bar stock or buying an expensive cutoff saw in addition to whatever CNC's you end up with.

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    Maybe a little past the lifespan of this discussion...

    Being a small business owner of a semi-successful product with a lot of demand, I would agree that most shops don't give you the time of day. And I know what I'm doing when it comes to creating drawings and designing for manufacturing.

    If places do show interest, they typically have no questions and little to no input on improving the design for less costly manufacturing. It seems to be more of a quick buck scenario 99% of the time.

    For me, I've found it better for business, more so in my case for prototyping of new designs, to have equipment in house to quickly punch out a new design. It's faster typically for me to 3D model a part, CAM or program the machine, and knock out a few parts then it is to make a drawing and tolerance it, especially when it comes to an assembly with a lot of stack up.

    As far as larger production runs, I think you want to be in the business of designing/marketing/selling a product versus being a manufacturer. For me, I like the design and prototyping phase. Part production sucks. Let someone with $500K worth of equipment handle that for you.


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