Used HAAS vs New TORMACH - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    What worked for me probably won't work for you, but I make products and started out with zero knowledge of any of this.

    I didn't get advise from the internet. From faceless people behind keyboards. I went out and found people that did stuff like I wanted to do and asked them questions.

    I bought Jap machines with Fanuc and Mitsubishi controls. No regrets at all with that choice.


    I spent a lot less money and got a lot more machine and capability.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    If I had to talk to the dealer or factory 10 times in 10 months, and had to buy parts, I would not bragging up the brand, I'd be pissed.

    Ummm...it was a new to him '98 machine. At close to 20 years old I'd think if someone bough tone and tried to get it all humming up top par I could see multiple calls for help. Umbrella parts like the spring doors, and tool grabbers. Switches with new coolant to loosen things up. Leaking lube and air lines. Lots of stuff old owners just new how to work around the issue to run parts...but new owner is willing to do it right.

    Anyway it is nice to be able to call an HFO and have a tech walk you through the what might be wrong, how to fix or replace instead of trying to troubleshoot it yourself. Its is nice when your told your Tool fork Grabber is Shot and that is is most likely why machines dropping the tool. Then offered advise...well you can use another pocket, swap the pocket "1" fork with less used pocket "12" fork...or buy new forks, we have in stock at $60.00 each, you want us to come out and replace or ship and you can do yourself.
    Yes one can figure all that out themselves...but much less time and aggravation spent when you can call and be directed by someone in the know.
    Having had other brand machines that I need to troubleshoot myself I do brag about Haas service.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIM View Post
    Ummm...it was a new to him '98 machine. At close to 20 years old I'd think if someone bough tone and tried to get it all humming up top par I could see multiple calls for help. Umbrella parts like the spring doors, and tool grabbers. Switches with new coolant to loosen things up. Leaking lube and air lines. Lots of stuff old owners just new how to work around the issue to run parts...but new owner is willing to do it right.

    Anyway it is nice to be able to call an HFO and have a tech walk you through the what might be wrong, how to fix or replace instead of trying to troubleshoot it yourself. Its is nice when your told your Tool fork Grabber is Shot and that is is most likely why machines dropping the tool. Then offered advise...well you can use another pocket, swap the pocket "1" fork with less used pocket "12" fork...or buy new forks, we have in stock at $60.00 each, you want us to come out and replace or ship and you can do yourself.
    Yes one can figure all that out themselves...but much less time and aggravation spent when you can call and be directed by someone in the know.
    Having had other brand machines that I need to troubleshoot myself I do brag about Haas service.
    My point was, that would be an aggravating number of issues to deal with. If I had suffered that many problems at start up of a used machine, I'd kick myself for making a poor machine choice.

    Here is a direct comparison....

    I picked up a 1995 Mori about 5 years ago. When I got it the memory battery was dead so the parameters were lost. Came with manuals and a hardcopy of the parameters. Reloaded the parameters, reset the absolute encoders and then it's running. No calls for advice or service.

    In the past 5 years it has had just one failure. The Y axis ballnut lube line chafed through and had to be replaced. A length of 4mm nylon tubing from McMaster-Carr and a few zip-ties took care of the parts needed. No calls for advice or service needed.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    My point was, that would be an aggravating number of issues to deal with. If I had suffered that many problems at start up of a used machine, I'd kick myself for making a poor machine choice.

    Here is a direct comparison....

    I picked up a 1995 Mori about 5 years ago. When I got it the memory battery was dead so the parameters were lost. Came with manuals and a hardcopy of the parameters. Reloaded the parameters, reset the absolute encoders and then it's running. No calls for advice or service.

    In the past 5 years it has had just one failure. The Y axis ballnut lube line chafed through and had to be replaced. A length of 4mm nylon tubing from McMaster-Carr and a few zip-ties took care of the parts needed. No calls for advice or service needed.
    Mori Hardware should make the Mori Service Dept look like the Maytag repairman commercial. I, however, am not impressed with the Mori MAPPS control that began around 1999. Maybe just my experience.

  5. #25
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    I/We are Brand new to Haas. Ordered the PM basics, Rubber seals, all the fluids, we needed, I rebuilt many of the turret toolholders where slides were missing, plus and we put in the 4th axis drive. It was all good stuff.. Not the bad stuff.


    If I had to talk to the dealer or factory 10 times in 10 months, and had to buy parts, I would not bragging up the brand, I'd be pissed.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by GBeaman View Post
    Mori Hardware should make the Mori Service Dept look like the Maytag repairman commercial. I, however, am not impressed with the Mori MAPPS control that began around 1999. Maybe just my experience.
    That's a weird connection to make, hardware-technician.

    It wasn't a "MAPPS" control, it was the GE Fanuc 21i. MAPPS is a software option, but I do agree it isn't the best. IME it was a way for Fanuc to compete with Mazatrol and Okuma's IGF. Even though I dislike Fanuc, the 21i is dreamy compared to some of the other 42,000 controls Fanuc has built.

    With that said, if it's an option---don't push the button if you don't like it. Just use it regeler.

    R

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by litlerob1 View Post
    That's a weird connection to make, hardware-technician.

    ....IME it was a way for Fanuc to compete with Mazatrol and Okuma's IGF.
    MAPPS is not a Fanuc product, it is a Mori Seiki product. Fanuc provided machine builders with the ability to create a custom U/I on the i versions of the 16-21 control.

    Some builders did very little and operationally they are 99% the same as "standard" Fanuc. Mori with the MAPPS and Amada with their EM-NT took it to extremes and it's tough to tell who made the control at first look.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    MAPPS is not a Fanuc product, it is a Mori Seiki product. Fanuc provided machine builders with the ability to create a custom U/I on the i versions of the 16-21 control.

    Some builders did very little and operationally they are 99% the same as "standard" Fanuc. Mori with the MAPPS and Amada with their EM-NT took it to extremes and it's tough to tell who made the control at first look.
    I ran some NL's back in 2005ish that were 21 controls, with the MAPPS option (that we never used BTW) but from my memory it was exactly the same as one without the MAPPS option.

    But hey, if we were betting on my Memory we'd all be broke. Or the batteries would need to be replaced.

    R

  9. #29
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    I have two small HAAS mills, a Mini Mill and a TM 1. Bought the TM new in 2005 and it has retained a lot of its value and given great services all these years. The Mini Mill is a 2001 and I could sell it for what I paid for it used over 5 years ago.

    I don’t know about resale values for TORMACH machines but if you get a good used HAAS you have a very low risk should you need to sell it later. Also there are tons of infos out there about Haas machines.

    No matter what you get, you still have to buy a lot of tooling and learn about CNC machining, assuming you are already knowledgeable regarding analog machining.

    If you lack any experience as a machinist, you would do well to consider hiring somebody to run the machine and write the programs.

    But as to Tormach or Haas.... Haas!

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