hudson-ch
Aluminum
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2006
- Location
- Zurich, Switzerland
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She IS beautiful... (from the inside ;-) ).
I wonder if you get the fine pitch ball screws with that ? + encoders on both rotary axes "Thrown in" for $270k base price.
Thanks for posting that!
Cheers,
Eric
The machines's A and C axis drive systems use hypoid gears and DD encoders.
The machine also has scales. The claimed accuracy is very close to the MU4000V.
It also comes with 5 axis auto tuning which comes with renishaw spindle probing. Tool probing is an option.
Supernurbs is also included.
It really is a great machine. I'd probably have one instead of the MU4000V if it was out a few months earlier. But I do like the B axis instead of an A axis for visibility.
Supernurbs is also included.
Good to know. That's like a $20k option for our Genos M560's.
The MU4000V list is around 500k. The MU400 was a little cheaper but not much. The Genos 460 5ax is a great machine for the money.
The Z axis travel is the same but the tool comes a little closer to the table on the MU. You really have to look at the work envelope diagrams for both machines, but they are very close. The Genos will actually swing a larger part than the MU because the outboard bearing on the B axis of the MU limits the size of the part. You also have to remember that the Genos is basically the MU400 and that machine has been out for a long time. If there were issues with the work envelope or travels Okuma would have worked it out by now.
The big differences is the amount of tools. My MU4000V holds 48 tools and I believe 64 is an option before you go to a hive. The MU also has cylindrical roller guides on x y and z. The rotary drive systems are also different on the MU. The B axis is a roller gear drive and the C axis is a direct drive motor. The stated accuracy is the same for the MU4000V and the Genos, but I believe the zero backlash drive systems on the MU make 5 axis simultaneous motion more accurate than the Genos.
Like other Genos machines some of the options are limited. I'm waiting for conformation that air through the trunnion is available on the Genos. My sales rep already said an auto door is not available.
What direct rivals does it have?
For about the same money? Matsuura MX and the new DMU 50 Gen III.
Or spend about $60k more (base list pricing) and Hermle has the new C250... and if Hermle is an option, Hermle is the answer.
So does this 5ax genos carry the same overall philosophy as the genos V mills, that being an enormously capable machine at a modest premium over the rest of the class? In other words a kick ass value? What else is in this range of capability..Mazak have a mid range 5ax? Hardinge did, not sure if they still do. Doosan?
The MB/Genos iron, with quality components for the 5ax, servo tuning, and 5ax super nurbs....that should handle 90% of the 5ax work in the world I would think.
Time to start rolling pennies...
So does this 5ax genos carry the same overall philosophy as the genos V mills, that being an enormously capable machine at a modest premium over the rest of the class?
I'm chewing through "Proposals" right now.
Frankly (the Genos M-460V - 5ax), is actually a bit of an upgrade from the MU 400V-II .
I have to admit I'm pretty taken with the M460V-5ax, especially as I had gotten quotes and deeper specs on the MU 400V-II quite some time ago.
Hard not to drewl into my keyboard, so maybe I switch to an I-pad or some such as is it's easier to wipe down.
Edster's MU4000V really is a dream machine, without doubt.
I agree the one thing that is indeed deceptive about the Genos M460V 5ax is that indeed (as Edster says) it can swing nearly 30" wide part, and the table is 400mm in diameter and (I think) the Y travel is 18" / 9" to and fro from the center of the table. (Right now not sure how close the spindle nose can get to the table when the trunion is tilted 90 degrees). The spindle genuinely has 30" of travel in X. [I have always had secret "Soft spot" for the MB -460 as the working volume vs rigidity is very very sweet indeed].
Pitch on ball screws (in mms) is X=20, Y=20 and Z = 16. (So that's the same pitch on the Genos M-460V) vs. MB models.
As Edster says scales on all axes, but specifically glass scales (and absolute scales) on XYZ and A and C. There are no compromises at all on that front I'm really glad they took that seriously (to have absolute scales on all axes linear and rotary).
The one thing I like about Okuma is they use absolute encoders.
The "Stand out" for me is you know with Okuma that thermal compensation is not BS. So having those scales in conjunction with Okuma's thermal compensation (strategies) is especially meaningful.
Might dig deep on the Super-Nurbs (being a super-nerd). For more organic flowing geometries (outside of mold work) whether Nurbs make a hell of lot more sense than "classical" G-code.
Random nice facts about the Genos M460v-5ax ... 32 tools and 15k spindle.
Yes the thermal comp does work on Okuma stuff. I think the V mills have 9 sensors driving the comp math I would expect a 5ax machine to have more. Motion control is the real star of the Okuma mills I think, coupled with the rigidity and comp they just work really well. I'd love to see a video of 5ax super nurbs, the 3ax video is impressive and I know that the V mills can lay down some really nice organic surfaces even with the standard Hi-cut pro.
Yeah, nice machine. If they deal a little on price I think they have a real winner. They either need to perform like a Hermle or stay far away from that price point.
You say They either need to perform like a Hermle or stay far away from that price point.
The one standard model thing is what they have always said about Genos mills. They aren't really lesser machines just one size fits all. I think they are trying to make this the bang for your buck machine to have for 5ax same as the Genos 3ax. It worked for the 560. They don't sell many 3ax 460's so yeah, make those into 5ax. Brilliant!
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