Video cameras for machine monitoring?

I did a search on the site and most of what I found pertained to remote monitoring of machines, which I currently have little application for.

As CNC tools become more and more cumbersome with enclosures and interlocks, one of my guys chief complaints is being able to see what's going on at the spindle, generally when proving new programs/revisions. Windows become scratched or flooded with coolant and most machines are only lit well with the door open.

We're installing a large Okuma MCR in the near future, and I would like to put 1 or 2 cameras in the machine that feed directly to monitors mounted outside the machine near the operator station to give them better visibility.

Has anyone else done something like this? What type of camera did you use? How did you make it coolant proof or is it waterproof?

I figure with all the GoPro style stuff out there these days, this should be a relatively simple endeavor, I just don't know where to start.

I think it would be really nice to have a set up kind of like you described. It is difficult to tell whats going on once the chips and coolant start to fly. A camera view from the side could be really nice. Even leaning in to edge find is kind of a bother.

I think there are lots of camera options these days that could serve this simple purpose but keeping them clean and clear is going to be the trick. some kind of an air screen might work if its located properly but id imagine that would put a strain on most shops air supply.

That or you could retro fit some of those Volvo headlight wipers to a little plexiglass box....

With the advent of very small, weather sealed cameras, there are a lot of surplus outside enclosures in the used market. Key attribute is the windshield wiper.

Bad news is, they're huge. Like a foot long, or better. Good news is, they're usually aluminum extrusions, so you can slice it off to 3" or whatever you need, and move the back to the new short case. It's reasonably sealed, still has the wiper on the front, and sealed wire connections on the back. Insert camera of your choice, and you're on the way.

You could also experiment with hydrophobic coatings on existing sealed cameras, looking for one that both repels your coolant and doesn't harm the exterior lens. Not my wheelhouse, though.

Chip

One of the thoughts I had was to build an enclosure that encompassed a spin window in the camera port side. Spin windows on the machine enclosure are useful, but the aspect and field of view is limited given the operators position and the windows position relative to the spindle. Putting the camera right up to the window eliminates that and increases the field of view 10x.

ETA: Again, I'm currently talking about large machines (100x200" table) so size is less of a consideration than say inside our little TC. I figure it would be easiest to come up with a solution on the large machines, then take what we've got and downsized.

If you have a P200 or P300 control you can have it show up on the control in a little window instead of using a separate monitor using the built in USB. Sealed camera or not, I would put it all in an additional enclosure with a little air nozzle to blow it off when needed.

Big Kaiser has one.

CCD Camera - BIG Kaiser

It's pricey though.

Kaiser no longer makes it and it's not available through our suppliers.

Keep in mind that the crap that is hitting the door windows will be hitting the lens.

Bost Machine Tools Introduction - YouTube

If you notice around 1:20 in this video, it looks like Bost puts them on the machine and integrates them very seamlessly. Having done my share of double column work now, I can appreciate another set of eyes, I did a job the other day with the right angle at B0... Not the most ideal situation when view of your entire ram is blocked from view, there was a lot of talking between myself and a spotter behind the machine, as well as numerous times when we would shut down and go in and verify distances to go.

+1 for cameras, I would imagine they could help cut proveout times in half depending on the visual restrictions.


Husker

My supplier after telling me the Kaiser was out of action called his Walter people because he knew they had cameras in their test machines. They're using this camera: Delta Vision Hi Def Underwater Video Camera - Splashcam - Commercial, Technical & Scientific Diving Supply coupled with this air knife Comparison of Super Air Knife, Standard Air Knife and Full-Flow Air Knife..

I'm going to give that a shot. Might be pricey but like Husker mentioned, what does it cost to have a 2nd guy spotting for you?

Good grief -

Having been in the subsea HD camera marketplace, I can't imagine that being an affordable solution for any shop. And not even a very good one for your application. Hell, I have my own version of that camera - nearly the same design sitting on my bench and I wouldn't use it for monitoring a machine.

How long can you wait?

Brent

I have time. I don't expect the machine to be installed until October.

Why would you not use the camera linked? I'm not completely clueless when it comes to cameras but requirements for this application is new to me, so going with something I know works as intended even if it's not the most cost efficient is easier for me to justify than striking out on my own for a solution.

And, that's the purpose of the thread If you have a better idea I am all ears.

Also, please keep in mind my intended purpose. Remote monitoring is absolutely not required. I simply want a direct feed to a monitor that can be placed at the operator's work area. Anything that requires TCP/IP or video rendering software is out. (Just restating so we're all on the same page)

Subsea cameras are generally built for real-time, man in the loop control of a subsea vehicle, and need to transport the signal over a long distance - 100's if not thousands of meters. The high data rate of HD-SDI - the data standard used in the camera you identified, creates impedance mismatches at junctions like connectors if those connectors are specifically designed to be impedance matched (75 ohms for HDSDI). Net result is you lose lots of signal at each (poor) connector. Most subsea connectors, up until recently, and until the advent of HDSDI, and its use subsea, were never designed with impedance matching in mind because RF type signals were almost never transported subsea, and if they were, they were converted to fiber, but has much better long range transmission characteristics.

So if its just SDI out, it's going to be a pain in the ass to get to work well in a noisy environment, and then your gonna need an SDI - HDMI converter to get it into any normal monitor. HDSDI is a broadcast video standard that happens to work well in subsea applications because it requires only a single transmission line - ideal for converting to fiber.

I'd bet the camera alone is 5K plus. Most of its subsea HD competitors will be 3-5 times that cost, but its depth rating kinda sucks (not that you care, but you';ll still pay the price for the depth capability that it does have). Then you need the converter, which was around $400 a few years ago, probably dropped in price by now.

Throwing a go pro in the machine, presuming the connections can be waterproofed and running it in a wifi mode seems like a pretty good option. I know you said you don't need TCP/IP, but that's where the market is and that's what is cheap and works well with decent video quality. Thermal issues might also be an issue if that ca,meta was designed to run at depth. The camera modules I was using put out a substantial amount of heat.

If you just want video, and crappy is acceptable (and it might be, but good video is addicting once you've had it) Just get a little analog CCTV camera and stick it in a housing and find a stand alone monitor or two. These days, you'll still spend more than you wold doing TCPIP, but it sounds like that's the solution you want.

Brent

yoke said:

That or you could retro fit some of those Volvo headlight wipers to a little plexiglass box....

Click to expand...

Mercedes too. For that matter, as small as CCTV cameras are these days why not retrofit the whole headlight/wiper/motor assembly and just replace the bulb with a camera?

Edit: Another thought for you guys with big coolant systems, why not just point a water nozzle at the camera housing and use it to simultaneously clean and replace water lost via evaporation?

Green buggy you ever tried watching through a water jet?

As to cameras, i would go for something usb and find one of the picture frame monitors that can take a live feed, the ones that typically play Sd camera card pic albums. There out there and cheap too. So are the water proof USB cameras with a 5-10 meter cable. Its sub $100 of bits, yeah might not be HD and surround sound, but cheep enough to have more than one on the go at once. Should be a walk in the park to make a air blast for any small usb camera too. Like a small block, with a even smaller drilled hole, maybe a NSPT tapping and a small like 3/16" push fit air line adapter. Would want to get a nice filter reg too so your only using a little air thats nice and clean. Something pin hole, you could simply mount it such as the cameras in the pressurized box, the lens hole being a outward going jet of air, far kinder to the optics than air knive scrubbing the lens with any swarft that makes it into the stream.

Above all though don't forget the lighting requirements any video is going to need.

Equally you need to consider just what were and how your going to mount it, cameras especially smaller ones suffer badly when it comes to vibration. Hence hanging it off the spindle housing or vibrating enclosure might be a real issue.

As to go pro, don't think you can get one with water proof external connections and the batteries won't last a shift.

The race car guys have protective plastic lens protectors that scroll to the side when soiled. A squirter and a squeegee on a recirculating plastic protector would keep it pretty clean.
The headlight approach would work if there are not optics on the lens.

Chip

Got a quote back on that camera I linked up above. Basic camera package with 50 feet of cable is $995. So yeah, expensive, but not as expensive as thought. Edit: That's the quote for the SD camera and not the HD camera I have linked.

Quick search on google for SDI to HDMI converters looks like about $100.

There are quite a few standard def subsea small camera manufacturers out there - Insight Pacific, Deep Sea Power and Light, etc.. Most of the standard def cameras will put out baseband video directly over a 75 ohm coax so you can go straight into a video monitor. Most will be smaller than what is pictured in the link you gave. It that's he route you want to go, you might check some of them out also.

Brent

Thanks Brent, I appreciate the help.

On lighting, has anyone ever put something like this in their machines? 5M White LED Lighting Strip, 12VDC, IP65 | MPJA.COM

I've been using these things around my house for various projects, the amount of light they generate for the amount of space and power they require is phenomenal. I'm just curious how something rated IP65 would survive inside a machine enclosure.