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  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veteran Bicycle View Post
    The chiller uses CR0.
    Sorry got mixed up i mean just swap the chiller into the currently active relay that was - is doing the machine shut down. should at least then power the chiller up and that will then give the control some feedback to that effect and may - may not unlock things control wise or just spew forth more random error codes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veteran Bicycle View Post
    ....Wire 43 is not powered. That was my mistake. Sorry.
    Good! Next thing to check is diagnostic Y00. If Y00 is 0 then the PLC is not trying to turn on the chiller. We'll figure that out later. If Y00 is 1 then the PLC is trying to turn on the chiller but can't. If that is the case the most likely cause would be a bad I/O board or bad wiring/broken connection between the I/O board and the relay board.

    Most machine builders create a "master" ladder program for the PLC that covers all possible configuration of the model. Sections of the ladder are activated/deactivated by PLC parameters in accordance with the build spec of the machine. If those parameters are not set properly then various functions of the machine will not operate properly. Consider that the spindle chiller may not be used on all versions of this machine. If this were the case, a PLC parameter would need to be set to enable the chiller function. Auto power off (the shunt trip breaker function) may also be an option and need a PLC parameter set for it to operate properly.

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Good! Next thing to check is diagnostic Y00. If Y00 is 0 then the PLC is not trying to turn on the chiller. We'll figure that out later. If Y00 is 1 then the PLC is trying to turn on the chiller but can't. If that is the case the most likely cause would be a bad I/O board or bad wiring/broken connection between the I/O board and the relay board.

    Most machine builders create a "master" ladder program for the PLC that covers all possible configuration of the model. Sections of the ladder are activated/deactivated by PLC parameters in accordance with the build spec of the machine. If those parameters are not set properly then various functions of the machine will not operate properly. Consider that the spindle chiller may not be used on all versions of this machine. If this were the case, a PLC parameter would need to be set to enable the chiller function. Auto power off (the shunt trip breaker function) may also be an option and need a PLC parameter set for it to operate properly.
    Sorry, I'm a little confused. You probably don't mean the wire labeled Y00 from the PLC to relay board 1. Where/what is diagnostic Y00?

  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Veteran Bicycle View Post
    .....Where/what is diagnostic Y00?
    On the screen, press the DIAGN IN/OUT button. One of the choices should say PLC-IF. If you don't see that press the rightmost screen key to scroll through the sub-menus until you see PLC-IF. Press that key and you should get a display showing diagnostic bits. There will be 2 groups. Usually the left group will start at X00 and the right group will start at Y00. Under each group will be data entry fields. They will look something like...

    DEVICE ( ) DATA ( ) MODE ( )

    If you do not see Y00 displayed in either group the key in Y00 in the Device field and press the INPUT key. Then you should see the Y00 (probably displayed as Y0000) diagnostics. Y00 is the rightmost bit in that address. Post a picture of that screen for me.

    Here is a bit more info on Diagnostic addresses...

    The next line would be Y0008, then Y0010, then Y0018, and so on. Mitsu labels their diagnostic bits in Hexdecimal (FEDCBA98 76543210). The 0s and 1s following each address are the diagnostic bits. There are 8 in each line. On Y00 they count from right to left and begin at 0 and ends at 7 being the leftmost bit. On address Y0008 the rightmost bit is Y08 and the leftmost bit is Y0F.

    X diagnostics show the state of physical inputs like sensors and switches. Y diagnostics show the state of physical outputs like relays or solenoids. There are lots of other address types but too many to go into here.

    Here are some other screens I would like you to look at and post pictures of. Press the TOOL PARAM button. You should see a row of screen buttons. One should say SETUP. Press it and press Y and the press INPUT. Look for a screen switch that says PLC. If you do not see it press the rightmost screen switch until it shows up then press it. Post a picture of that screen. Page down until you see a page that starts at #6301. Post a picture of that screen. Page down until you see a screen that starts at #6401 and post a picture of that screen.

    Apologies for the super long post...

  5. #65
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    Y0010 flashes different values

    img_4232.jpg

    Refer to the video: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1AQ...WQyudH_zdnmEDv

    img_4228.jpg

    img_4229.jpg

    img_4230.jpg

  6. #66
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    Thanks for the pictures!

    Since Y00 is 0 that means that at this point, the ladder is not trying to turn on the chiller. It would require looking at the ladder to see what condition need to be met to change the state of Y00 to 1. IMO this is a result of the machine being in an E-stop condition, not the cause of the E-stop condition. Again it would require looking through the ladder and possibly other diagnostic addresses to verify this.

    The computer I'm on right now won't play the video you posted. I'll try a different computer later today.

    The pictures of PLC parameters show that you do have data set in the PLC parameter registers. At this point I can only assume the settings are correct, but it does kill my idea that they were not set at all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post

    The computer I'm on right now won't play the video you posted. I'll try a different computer later today.
    Y0010 oscillates between 00000000 00 and 00001000 08

    The OEM just replied to my email questioning if the files he sent me were correct for this machine, and his reply was they were 500% correct.

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    The address on line Y0010 that is flickering is Y0013. It drives relay CR19 which drives an alarm light. Does CR19 "click" in time with Y0013?

    Does your documentation include a hard copy printout of the ladder? If it does, can you link a copy like you did for the wiring diagram?

    Good to get confirmation that the files are correct for your machine. Helps remove one question mark from the issue.

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    I spent some time this weekend looking at the ladder. Here are some diagnostic bits thatI would like to see the state of..

    Y29F
    X129
    M518

    Is the LED above the membrane switch labeled APF on the operator panel lit? If you press the APF switch does it turn off and on?
    Last edited by Vancbiker; 04-15-2018 at 07:44 PM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Good to get confirmation that the files are correct for your machine. Helps remove one question mark from the issue.
    Please don’t forget at the moment the only thing you have truly proven is the cooler is not being asked to turn on and the machine is trying to power its self down.

    Whilst there could still be another fault causing this it still raises the serious question of if it is the correct files and if in deed the tech has loaded them correctly. All the times i am bitten fault finding after others have failed is generally down to making too many assumptions and trusting the information they give me about there thoughts on what is wrong. Remember if they knew what is wrong they would have fixed it themselves.

    Might pay to also ask what else would make the machine want to turn its self off (you know the other proven known quirk on the machine at this point), yeah its a programmable call, but what other things - faults could trip it into doing this on purpose?

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    Really basic question as an observer of this post
    Is the liquid for the chiller up to its proper level?
    and/or is there a "low" level switch that would trigger a no start?

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Here are some diagnostic bits thatI would like to see the state of..

    Y29F
    X129
    M518
    I'm learning as I'm going. Can you steer me there?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Veteran Bicycle View Post
    I'm learning as I'm going. Can you steer me there?
    Pretty much the same process that I outlined in post 64 above. Type in the address (Y0029 for example) that you want to search in the device field. Post a picture of the result.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    Pretty much the same process that I outlined in post 64 above. Type in the address (Y0029 for example) that you want to search in the device field. Post a picture of the result.
    Neither X29F, X129 nor M518 fit the naming scheme "Y0029" at all. Are you abbreviating?

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    I didn't explain that very well.

    On the screen, press the DIAGN IN/OUT button. One of the choices should say PLC-IF. If you don't see that press the rightmost screen key to scroll through the sub-menus until you see PLC-IF. Press that key and you should get a display showing diagnostic bits. There will be 2 groups. Usually the left group will start at X00 and the right group will start at Y00. Under each group will be data entry fields. They will look something like...

    DEVICE ( ) DATA ( ) MODE ( )

    Key in X29F in the Device field and press the INPUT key. Then you should see the X298 address displayed as X0298 diagnostic. X29F is the leftmost bit in that address. Post a picture of that screen for me.

    Repeat the above for the other addresses I asked about, substituting the new address for the X29F.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    I didn't explain that very well.

    On the screen, press the DIAGN IN/OUT button. One of the choices should say PLC-IF. If you don't see that press the rightmost screen key to scroll through the sub-menus until you see PLC-IF. Press that key and you should get a display showing diagnostic bits. There will be 2 groups. Usually the left group will start at X00 and the right group will start at Y00. Under each group will be data entry fields. They will look something like...

    DEVICE ( ) DATA ( ) MODE ( )

    Key in X29F in the Device field and press the INPUT key. Then you should see the X298 address displayed as X0298 diagnostic. X29F is the leftmost bit in that address. Post a picture of that screen for me.

    Repeat the above for the other addresses I asked about, substituting the new address for the X29F.
    img_4261.jpg
    img_4267.jpg
    img_4271.jpg

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    I typed that in wrong. Instead of X28F, I need to see Y29F.

    Also R69

    On edit:

    I was wandering through the ladder and noted some unusual logic around the power up scheme. Looking at the operation manual sort of validated what I saw in the logic. Did you follow the power on scheme as described in chapter 3.1.2? It appears that the e-stop button must be depressed (latched) prior to turning on the CNC power. Once the CNC has powered up then the e-stop button is released. This sequence of actions sets the state of a logic relay in the PLC that is checked at other logic rungs related to powering up the control.
    Last edited by Vancbiker; 04-16-2018 at 10:33 PM.

  18. #78
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    img_4278.jpg
    img_4279.jpg

    The membrane switch labeled APF is off by default, but it lights when pressed and goes off when pressed again.

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vancbiker View Post
    I was wandering through the ladder and noted some unusual logic around the power up scheme. Looking at the operation manual sort of validated what I saw in the logic. Did you follow the power on scheme as described in chapter 3.1.2? It appears that the e-stop button must be depressed (latched) prior to turning on the CNC power. Once the CNC has powered up then the e-stop button is released. This sequence of actions sets the state of a logic relay in the PLC that is checked at other logic rungs related to powering up the control.
    I followed the exact sequence in 3.1, and it made no difference. Prior to this, I was engaging the e-stop and disengaging it as step 3 in the start up sequence, and never engaging or disengaging it in the shut down sequence.

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    Here is something to try, if you feel comfortable doing it... I want you to force on an input to the PLC. This should not cause any problems. Don't let that lull you into any false confidence. I've seen people start playing around with forcing PLC states and causing bigger problems....

    From looking at the circuit diagram, it appears that in normal operation X16 should 1. Currently it is 0. I would like to see what happens when X16 is turned on. That can be done on a Mitsu control at the operator panel.

    Go to the PLC-IF screen.
    You should see this at the bottom of the screen. DEVICE ( ) DATA ( ) MODE ( )
    In the device field key in X16 then cursor right and key in 1 in the data field then cursor right and key in 2 in the mode field. Press the INPUT button. Anything happen? After that, take pictures of Y29F, M518, R69 and post them.


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