What to look for in an early 90's Fadal?

Im heading to look at and early 90's 4020 with a 4th for the tinker shop here at home. I've been told by the owner that the machine was rebuilt a couple of years ago, turcite, screws, drives, cards, etc. Its in a pretty well respected shop, as much as I'd like to take them for their word, is there any way to really tell?
How do I tell if it has rigid tapping (I doubt many early 90's machines did, but it has a 4th on it..), what else do I need to be really looking for here? Is there a way to tell if it has metric screws? Could the 4th be indexing only and not a "full" 4th?
Any info you guys could provide would be great.

Cheers!

Look in the back door of the pendant the parameters and options should be on a list pasted there.

First thing would be what year? And actually that doesn't matter too much, what control does it
have? The 88 or the 88HS. I heard that some of the early 88HS controls were in the old 88
pendant because they still had some left on the shelf..

May be a moot point if they updated everything anyways. Early 90's was DC drives and motors, which
aren't brushless so they require more maintenance (supposedly). Not a deal breaker, I find the DC amplifiers
to be more robust than the AC and if they do blow up, about half the price as the AC's.

As for the 4th... Fadal did it simple.. The control can do every and anything, it was all there, extra offsets...
already there... Ability to rigid tap... already there... Macros... not an option, already there.. Run 5 axis..
already there...

Really the only options where hardware related. Does it have the e-proms to rigid tap, and a spindle drive that
can rigid tap? Probably already has the encoder in the spindle motor, both my machines ('93&'94) have the encoder,
but not the e-proms. 4th axis.. Need the controller card, axis amplifier, a cable and a 4th axis... All hardware...

Anyways, yes it will be a full 4th.. You can do full 4 axis moves, though you will probably never have to, I think
I've done it once, may only have been a 3 axis contouring move, but it will do it.

One other thing to look for, a lot of 4020's that came with a 4th have the extended 28" Z axis.. This is
VERY handy. Easy to tell. If the top sheet metal on the left is a mirror image of the sheet metal on the
right, its a standard 20". If the top sheet metal on the left has a cutout for the tool changer to fit, its
28"... The cutout weakens the top sheet metal on that side, so you can't stand on it like you can on the right.

You can also check the parameters by typing "setp" then enter from the "enter next command" prompt. 3 simple pages
worded in english. There will be a line that says "screws" and it will say either "inch" or "metric". Another quick way
is check the pitch of the Z screw with some calipers.. The Z screw is an 8mm pitch and easy to get to. The inch screws
were a finer pitch.

How much are they asking?

Bob,

Its an 88HS control, 22.5 hp spindle (ht?) and from the pictures it looks to have the standard 20" column. It does have the early style membrane keyboard. Not sure what that does to date the machine, but im guessing probably closer to '90. Youre probably right about using all 4 axis at once, but I definitely wanted to make sure its not just an indexer.
I have no problem changing brushes on a dc motor once a year if need be.
Thanks for the reminder on the SETP screen... forgot about that.
Does the possibility of the high torque spindle eliminate or increase the odds of rigid tapping?

Scadvice, Ill be sure to check out the options list. Problem is once you get into some of these machines that have had things added and deleted, they often vary from factory build.

Asking price is around $16000 Canadian mini bucks.
Ill report back with some pictures tomorrow afternoon.

Cheers!

Allright, just got home.... gawd.
Machine is super tight, some scoring on the z axis right hand way, spindle sounds great all the way through to 10k rpm.
After looking at things im convinced its not a 88hs control. Im also not convinced its got the cards and amp for the 4th axis. The 4th axis rotary is there, the dummy plug is in the enclosure, but after checking out the setp menu, its only set for xyz.
Ill try to link a photobucket account. PLEASE have a look and tell me what you think. I don't think its as advertised, but the machine is very tight for a..... wait for it.... '89..... ick
http://s1108.photobucket.com/user/impala_stu/embed/story
Hope you guys can offer some insight into this treasure trove of stuff.
Oh, enjoy the fishing pictures
Cheers!

Stu

Stu, If I recall correctly the dummy plug disables the 4th axis so that you will only see 3 axis. With the plug out and the 4th plugged in then it becomes active. Photobucket isn't working yet...
Did you get the serial number? That will give the year of the machine( the first two numbers). 89 was the first one I had. The board may have been upgraded to a -4 that will speed it up like a 88hs. One of the other Fadal people can correct me and give you the front numbers on the board and which one. Depending on it's condition 16k Can may be an ok price especially with the 4th. and some tooling? The 4th's are going for 3 to 5k US. How firm are they on price? You might be able to dicker a little.

Thats a 1988-1989. I wouldnt buy it if I were you.

IAMATT said:

Thats a 1988-1989. I wouldnt buy it if I were you.

Click to expand...

That's how I'm feeling right now. I was pretty excited initially, as machine was "advertised" with all new cards and stuff, but from what I see its all 1010-1 stuff, and a random 1010-5a and amp laying around in the office. Seems a little greasy to me. Table was remilled with a chisel by the looks of thing as well. I think I'll be passing on this one.
Off to look at a much newer hurco bmc4020 hss for much less money. Go figure?

A couple quick questions guys.
1. What is undesirable about the 88-89 machines?
2. Would it be worth while upgrading the machine to an 88hs if I could get it cheap enough?
3. What would the above cost, ballpark?

Im really leaning towards the Hurco 4020 I viewed today, but I would really prefer a fadal for ease and cost of repairs.

Very small memory, very slow cards, bad handling of dnc, obselete cards, obselete spindle drive, obselete keyboards. Machining the tablr might mean the turcite is worn. You should have gotten a professional in there to do through it. Get a 93 or newer 4020 and you will be very happy. I dont know about Hurco bmcs. I have very little to say except folks complain. Who knows you may like Hurcos ancient conversational control...its as backwards as a drunk Canadian. So grab a 30 pack of green death before you fire it up...lol.

IAMATT, like I said, the machine was very tight, and I measured some of their parts, and I was impressed. I think the table was machined because they replaced all the turcite. I checked under the x travel, and it looked good to me. I have my doubts that the boxes were reworked as part of the "rebuild".
The only "pros" I know as far as fadals are concerned are located 3 hrs from me. And im 3 hrs the other direction from where the machine is at. 12 hours of driving plus per diem adds up damned fast on something that's already a turd, and not as advertised.
I have a hurco hawk knee mill, I don't bother with the conversational... its a waste of time for me. But I could see someone who cant put the money into Cam software finding it very usefull. I couldn't imagine putting together a 3 axis contouring program tconversationally though....but it apparently will do it.....if you have the time for that.

Now, something we need to get straight is the "backwards drunk Canadian" lol
Im very forwards when drunk
And what the heck is a 30 pack of green death? (sounds like fun)

Cheers!

Special export...its like Molson down here.

This here stuff? Special Export Beer | Pabst Brewing Co.
No thanks.... ill stick to my 8% German reinheitsgabot Doppelbock's

Anywho.... back to machining
Anyone out the have a line on a fadal vh65 rotary?