Why are Hurcos not seen or heard of much?

I do a fair bit of surfing the net and other machining related social media type deals. I rarely come across a Hurco in use in the wild.

My theory is that it is kind of a middle of the road machine that gets leap frogged. Buy something cheap like a HAAS then pay it off and buy a Mori.

Or do they just run so perfectly no one needs to ask questions?

We have a few in our shop (gov'ment) but I would call that an exception.

I have an early 90's BMC 30. The ultimax3 died and I retrofitted the control. I like mine it's a tough heavy box way machine. It's not the 12k RPM, 1500ipm rapids machine. But gets the job done for what I need.

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We have 2 hurco mills and 1 lathe. 2 of them are from 2006 and the newest is a 2014. They have been very reliable and decent machines, for what they are.

From what I have seen basically since we got our latest mill is that pricing has gone up on them. So by the time you add a few options your paying as much for the next level machine.

BSCustoms said:

I do a fair bit of surfing the net and other machining related social media type deals. I rarely come across a Hurco in use in the wild.

My theory is that it is kind of a middle of the road machine that gets leap frogged. Buy something cheap like a HAAS then pay it off and buy a Mori.

Or do they just run so perfectly no one needs to ask questions?

We have a few in our shop (gov'ment) but I would call that an exception.

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That's probably true. I have seen in job listings many requests for machinists/machine operators that (ironically) "Know" Hurcos in the aerospace/defense sector and NASA in particular. I think in institutions where someone wearing a lab coat is just as likely to run the machine as someone in "overalls"/T-shirt that a Hurco may be a good fit/that's where you see them. What's interesting is how Hurco is marketed around the world; for example in Germany they are going "gang busters" with the Hurco simply as they are able to market the machines WELL to a slightly different user base. In Germany for example there is not so much this white collar / blue collar divide and typically a lot of engineers and designers have a real need to be very hands on to a deep technical level. So they manage to market quite convincingly the Hurco machines as being engineer and designer friendly especially coupled with CADCAM solutions such as SolidWorks and SolidCAM (I'll dig up some links/videos in a minute to illustrate what I mean). Whereas in the USA Hurco is marketed more towards the "Nascar" minded outfit / experienced hands on machinists that just need to get stuff done on a machine that cuts very well, but the interface allows you to make prismatic parts no matter what (Come hell or high water). I think that's why (maybe) Hurco tends to crop up in some defense and Aerospace type places as there are so many different ways you can make the same part. In other words if you are in a real emergency you can still finger smudge (newer touch screen) a part definition on screen and get it done no matter what.

Their main rationale is to divide CAD/CAM intensive work in the office versus what can be done at the machine. Basically their argument is that your machine operators can be programing simple parts at the machine straight off the print at the control (without finger-CAM-Gcode) while the CADCAM programmers can spend more time on complex intricate parts. In other words your operators (that can't finger CAM) are not hanging around waiting and waiting and waiting for the "Flakey" designer to provide the g-code/file that may or may not run first time.


I agree about the pricing, that lakey0 is talking about here but they do have some very competitively priced "Specials" a couple of times a year to clear older stock (as it were) really good deals and well optioned. I think the rationale is charge more for machines at a price point that matches production capability and those that need a machine "now" pay more... And for the machines that need to be cleared , just drop the price on those periodically for folks that can hold their money in their hand and wait for the right time and "Pounce".

The VCX 600i (I think) seems like good value for money and is quite a bit more precise and accurate than what most people would assume.


- HURCO-GmbH

In their general "Mind over metal/what is Hurco" you will see women designers in the promo... and other "softer/designer/technocratic types" feature (all be it briefly in the video), but you get the idea.

- HURCO-GmbH

Here the very "German" positive and technocratic yet practical approach is being applied here (to good effect) to "flog" the VCX600i.


Where as if you go to the US site its a total disorganized (almost drug crazed mess) as they want to bash you over the head about the control, and site navigation is deliberately made VERY difficult to allow you to look at the machines first (as they are ALL about the control). http://www.hurco.com/pages/default.aspx# (Go USA!).

[But to be fair there are several adaptive milling and trochoidal machining strategies and advanced motion control included on the control... So that's a little more unique + .DXF option on the control too.].

Compare that to the very rationally organized German Hurco site. CNC-Werkzeugmaschinen - HURCO

[Even if you can't speak German just poking around for 30 seconds you know what and where everything is.].

No affiliation.

I always kinda assumed they were Haas's main competition in the "new shop/cnc owner" market, kind of in that same league to me. I haven't had the impression that hurco's lathes caught on all that much though.

I didn't know they prices went up... :-/

I've had a few of the mills and I have one of the big dumb lathes, and for most things you cannot beat them. I would bet on a 2-axis lathe you could just hold a print on the screen for a minute, and it would write itself...

That said, they havn't sold enough of the y-axis, subspindle lathes to get the software right. I still have issues on what I feel like should be basic things, some problems I have had from the beginning and I almost have the machine paid off from new...

The mills just run. I have had hiccups, but I would assume that everyone has a hiccup every now and then. They don't last long, and my rep, Gage Machine Tool, is fricking amazing at support, I almost always get the guy who owns the place on his cell phone, and he can walk me through anything softwarewise, or a repair guy on his cell phone and he walks me through fixing this spring or that sensor, and they don't even charge for that. Better than a lawyer!

Anyway. I wouldn't hesitate to buy anything they make, except maybe a y-axis subspindle lathe... That said, I am keeping my eyes out for a two-axis one. I would bet they are the bee's knees.

I looked at an early 2000's 4020 Hurco for sale last summer. Owner said it didn't have many problems since new, was very reliable, but was not very capable (rigid) and did not hold size as well as any of their other (taiwan and jap machines) machines.

It looked very similar in build quality to a Haas. I did not buy the machine so have no further experience with them.

SND said:

I always kinda assumed they were Haas's main competition in the "new shop/cnc owner" market, kind of in that same league to me. I haven't had the impression that hurco's lathes caught on all that much though.

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Yup :-)

But the VMX lines are bit better/quite a bit better than Haas (I reckon) but the new BX 40i (heavy bridge style) construction is a really good move by them I think.

Machine Specifications

I too wish they would "Pull focus" on their lathes a bit also, the TM12i seems pretty decent for two axis work but the prices always seem a bit out of step and like what OP/BSCustoms is saying that for the same money you can get DMG Mori NLX 2500 | 1250 (nearly 50" between centers) for about the same price). I know they are different class of machine but if you need to do long work of the order of 30" to 40" then Hurco does not give you many options until you get into a much larger chuck/heavier machine.

I think for new shops having the lathe line synch up better with the quality of the better mills would probably help close more sales to new time buyers...

Thinking waaaay back I think that was the principal reason I didn't invest / buy Hurco. For a someone that's newer to production level cnc / new shop there is the need to make things a simple as possible right from the start, so it's tempting to say I need a mill and a lathe and have them be from the same company, same sales and support outfit and same control, and same workflow... So the Hurco lathes can de-rail that idea, and immediately you have to hunt around for better/different options. Admittedly there are a lot of companies that make excellent verticals that don't manufacture lathes at all?

Given the quality of work I have seen done with Hurco mills, I would choose a Hurco over a Haas anyday. Not sure how they are to live with as far as interface and repair goes but my impression as a fairly informed, engineering type, business owner is that Hurco is underrated in the market in the US. I think they are on par with other more well known names. Doosan, Hardinge...they are solidly a mid tier machine.

Bought a Hurco VM-10 new in 2010, our first VMC. Has been rock solid and no issues just normal maintenance items, belts, tool pot sensor, air valve same as any other machine. Same experience as Parker with support, all top notch parts on hand if you need them next day and at reasonable prices.

I think Cameraman hit the nail on the head as far as marketing and target audience.

We did look at a new VMX 42 when we purchased the Okuma M560, both came in about the same price once all the options were added up, maybe a few K cheaper for the Hurco but went for the Okuma instead. I will say that the Hurco control is just so simple to use especially in MDI mode, just about anything you want to do there is a soft key that does it for you whether its tool changes, probing you name it so it makes a great prototyping and short run machine
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Still getting use to the Okuma control but man the number of key strokes is insane just to do simple stuff.

When I bought the speedio last fall, my other choice was a Hurco vm10i. It seemed like a great little mill. I was probably more comfortable with that machine than the speedio, but when I was faced with buying what is probably the last cnc mill I will ever buy new, I felt I wanted to push myself and explore down the speedio line instead.

So far I'm happy, but hold hurco is high regard.

Haas is king in NW Ohio probably 10 Haaa to 1 Hurco. However the ones who have Hurco tend to like it a lot more than Haas. Most say they are lot beefier & ridgid than Haas.

Captdave said:

Bought a Hurco VM-10 new in 2010, our first VMC. Has been rock solid and no issues just normal maintenance items, belts, tool pot sensor, air valve same as any other machine. Same experience as Parker with support, all top notch parts on hand if you need them next day and at reasonable prices.

I think Cameraman hit the nail on the head as far as marketing and target audience.

We did look at a new VMX 42 when we purchased the Okuma M560, both came in about the same price once all the options were added up, maybe a few K cheaper for the Hurco but went for the Okuma instead. I will say that the Hurco control is just so simple to use especially in MDI mode, just about anything you want to do there is a soft key that does it for you whether its tool changes, probing you name it so it makes a great prototyping and short run machine
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Still getting use to the Okuma control but man the number of key strokes is insane just to do simple stuff.

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I went from Fanuc 18i or Oi to the 560, the only real excess keystrokes I noticed are involved with editing code on the control. reloading the program to the buffer...not something you need to do on fanuc. Everything else seems pretty straight forward, but I've never run a newer Hurco, multiple people have said that the control is very friendly. I'm also a computer "guy" developing button mashing muscle memory isn't a big deal for me. I'm one of those type that can't really tell you how I do stuff on a control because my brain doesn't bother cataloging that process. It's busy thinking of better tool paths or designing dies or fixturing... I have to stand in front of it and my hands just know what to do after a while, it's some lizard brain action.

Why companies like Hurco and Hardinge haven't killed Haas is kind of impressive, Gene can market stuff for sure. They aren't any cheaper, F1 teams aren't free.

XD341 said:

Why companies like Hurco and Hardinge haven't killed Haas is kind of impressive, Gene can market stuff for sure. They aren't any cheaper, F1 teams aren't free.

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Gene will also finance anyone who can fog a mirror. Having to put in a code every month after you have made your payment is pure genius.

Mickey_D said:

Gene will also finance anyone who can fog a mirror. Having to put in a code every month after you have made your payment is pure genius.

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When i worked for HAAS I had the pleasure of going out to a customer who had bought several machines outright at the same time only to have them shutdown due to the finance software still being active.
To say he was pissed off is a under statement and then having to wait even longer for the reset code due to the uk usa time zone difference nearly had him dragging the machines outside with a excavator!

Dont compare hurco to haas, the hurco is much better

We have 2 hurcos, not bad machines, though we basically use them for holes in a proprietary tantalum webbed substrate lol...I'm not a fan of the controlls but I'm a haas guy so...

plastikdreams said:

We have 2 hurcos, not bad machines, though we basically use them for holes in a proprietary tantalum webbed substrate lol...I'm not a fan of the controlls but I'm a haas guy so...

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I'm assuming you have older machines, the WinMax controls are pretty awesome. Not sure when it was released, but probably a year or two before 2010.

Mickey_D said:

Gene will also finance anyone who can fog a mirror. Having to put in a code every month after you have made your payment is pure genius.

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huh...yeah that is pretty slick. I didn't know they did that.