Wondering about simple "conversational" for boring mill.

dodgin · Feb 13, 2017

So our current boring mill, a 70s G&L, is on the way out the door. They've asked me to try to hunt down it's replacement, and they've given me a pretty sweet little list of criteria that this thing needs to meet for them to look at it.

I've pretty much come to the conclusion at this point that they'd like to have a super simple conversational-ish control. When they described what they want to get into the first thing that came to mind for me was a ProtoTrak. Based on what I've read I don't think it's possible to have a boring mill outfitted with a ProtoTrak, so I'm wondering what kind of controller out there would be similar and can be outfitted onto a manual boring mill?

Red James · Feb 13, 2017

I do not think it practical to add a control to a manual boring mill in any kind of reasonable time. Just making brackets for servo motors inside the machine would be a challenge.

Look at mazak horizontal machining centers . . .

B-Mathews · Feb 13, 2017

Sounds like a Mazak or Hedienhain control is in order.

DMF_TomB · Feb 13, 2017

dodgin said:
So our current boring mill, a 70s G&L, is on the way out the door. They've asked me to try to hunt down it's replacement, and they've given me a pretty sweet little list of criteria that this thing needs to meet for them to look at it.

I've pretty much come to the conclusion at this point that they'd like to have a super simple conversational-ish control. When they described what they want to get into the first thing that came to mind for me was a ProtoTrak. Based on what I've read I don't think it's possible to have a boring mill outfitted with a ProtoTrak, so I'm wondering what kind of controller out there would be similar and can be outfitted onto a manual boring mill?

.
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conversational is great for 2.5 axis cnc that is where Z moves alone, X and Y can move together if needed. when you talk rotary table and doing other sides it becomes complicated. if parts on tombstone and only doing from same side not too bad its when you use rotary table doing other sides that it is 10x more complicated

CNC Hacker · Feb 13, 2017

What size machine do you need? Mazak makes a hybrid HBM/HMC machine with a quill:

HCN-16Q

Hurco also makes boring mills with conversational control:

Hurco CNC Horizontal Boring Mill Machine

onecut · Feb 13, 2017

Heidenhain control pretty easy

bryan_machine · Feb 13, 2017

For many tasks you can easily program a Heidenhain just using the "H language" - which is their G-code equivalent with better UI and such. They also have a "conversational" scheme for quick programming of pockets and the like, which I've never bothered with.

My lathe has "shopturn" running on a Siemans controller, unclear to me if that's a Siemans feature or a DMG feature.

dodgin · Feb 14, 2017

Thanks for the input everyone. As much as I'd love to look at Mazak, Hurco, Fryer, etc, they're basically saying it's too much CNC for what they want to use it for. What I'm gathering is they want something that's going to be CNC control in X,Y and then hand crank any other axis. It's not my want and I'm not even sure something like that exists for a machine that size.

Myrmidon · Feb 14, 2017

Summit might have something matches up with your needs.

Either that or a Dynapath?

Milltronics and the previously mentioned Hurco.

Maybe a rebuild with Fagor (from what I've heard)

Good luck I don't think I've seen more than 1 or 2 boring bars that had crank and CNC capability.

DMF_TomB · Feb 14, 2017

dodgin said:
Thanks for the input everyone. As much as I'd love to look at Mazak, Hurco, Fryer, etc, they're basically saying it's too much CNC for what they want to use it for. What I'm gathering is they want something that's going to be CNC control in X,Y and then hand crank any other axis. It's not my want and I'm not even sure something like that exists for a machine that size.

.
.
contact
Southwestern Industries, Inc.
.
many places will put a Prototrak or Centroid control on. They will need to upgrade screws to ballscrews and add there own glass scales for digital readout. that and the control itself it is not cheap. but you can probably get a local sales rep to come and look at your machine.
.
i have had local prototrak rep come and upgrade my trav a dial encoder to the balls in a tube type which is better than glass scales. he was done and had machine calibrated in about 1 hour. a full machine upgrade often takes 4 to 8 hours depends on your machine. it might need custom ball screws made

bryan_machine · Feb 14, 2017

Now I'm really confused. The opening post says the '70s G&L is on the way out the door => going to buy a new HBM. (Right?)

What new HBM are they/you going to buy that isn't CNC? (Uh, there was a thread about new manual HBMs a while ago, it was slim pickings.)

What size machine is this going to be?

Do "they" (management) and you realize that with not so much training you can drive a CNC like a manual? And that for HBM class machines the cost difference might be zilch?
(I was told at IMTS that a new G&L came with fanuc or siemans or heidenhain, whichever one you wanted, flat rate price for a given size....)

What is "too much CNC?"

(uh, I'm a guy on the web who doesn't pay your bills or train anybody, but stilll...)

Greg White · Feb 15, 2017

Older G&Ls Take well to Dyna Paths.
The Z was the saddle , spindle still hand crank.
The Bmil your shipping out would take well to it.
Ran a couple of them in The Detroit area.
Dyna Paths are simple , and can do some very nice work.
Good luck, your stumbling blk seems to be the boss eh?
Gw

dodgin · Feb 15, 2017

Bryan: No, not a new HBM. Replacing the old HBM, but looking at used machines. As far as size goes we're looking in the range of 70" plus on X, around 60" on Y, then W and Z pretty indiscriminate.

And to answer your question plus touch on something Greg just said...foreman, who isn't quite my boss, is kind of the stumbling block here.

I've gently explained how easy is would be to train a CNC mill guy to write quick programs for simple face milling/drilling (practically all the machine will be used for) right at the controller, whether it's Dynapath or MDI mode in a Fanuc controller.

Greg White · Feb 15, 2017

It's sad for many reasons to hear you
Say your shipping out the G&L, brute of
A machine, you won't find better iron/ build
Quality for a simple retrofit, have you
Called in Dynapath for a talk about?
Cool thing aboot them is, if you ever
Hire a person that thinks G & M codes
Are easy they can make the machine dance.
A lot of simple ops are much much quicker
With very simple programs rather than using
Conversational, something to consider.
To buy based on exsisting knowledge of
Your machinist is very short sighted, it would be far from the first time that this one done, your makeing a big move, gain some knowledge before you leap, I see your in Michigan, there is a lot history here. I wish you nothing but the best.
Look before you leap
Gw

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