Through contribution of a friendly site visitor (extremely rare occurrence) I was able to put the 1991 Deckel Product Range on my site:
http://www.dialog5.com/1991productrange.htm

I find it very interesting.
Note that the FP2NC was already dropped (actually already dropped in 89), the FP4ME was not yet listed, Contour 3 is gone and only the FP4MA still being available with the old style control (C2). FP3A with toolchanger (ATC) dropped too (but probably much earlier already).

I have also added stuff to the CC series page: http://www.dialog5.com/fpccseries.htm

Coming soon: the FP4/60 series.

Very nice. How frustrating they didn't bother to have a photo of the FP4MK however. Re the FP4MA...how strange they still offered the older Dialog type control as late as 1991... have you ever seen a single example of one of these later MA machines for sale ?

Yes, the late FP4MA pop up in Germany reasonably often. But 91 is really quite late and soon afterward the ME must have come out, but I am not sure it replaced it either, as it might have been available in parallel. We clearly need more such product overviews to fill ALL the gaps.

That is neat.
Interesting in how the appearance of the FP4NC evolved into what looks like a larger, more integrated envelope, with the last style flip head- (from previous photos it appears that head is not compatible with accessories like the boring head/slotter etc), and the control arm comes off the bottom of the machine instead of from the rear side.

What is the difference betweeen the 1991 FP4MA and the 80s vintage FP4NCs, besides the control?

PS Nice work on the site, Martin, I enjoy visiting.

Steve

The FP2NC is still listed in the 1989 general catalogue.
First time in 1992 with the other big changes.
Already in 1990 only the Dialog 11 and TNC are offered.
And still available as such in 1992.
Still listed in the 1989 general catalogue.

They must have had too many C2 & C3 controls left in their stores as both, the FP4MA-C2 and the FP4ME-C3 are shown in the 1992 general.

The FP4MA is the light duty FP4M manual mill (which capacity wise, albeit not duty wise) replaced the FP3, with a 2-1/2D CNC (one drive motor shared for either the vertical or the cross travel).
The FP4NC is the heavy duty CNC mill with longer travels.

If you make a search in the forum, dimensions have been given often.

What is the difference between the FP3A and the FP3NC other than the later having a bigger head. They both got dialog 11.

Is the FPNC head bigger because it is a high speed head?

So Arno, you have more of these general catalogues.
How about letting me put them on my web site in a special section and I'll make an overview table of what came when to tie them all together?
That way we'd at least once and for all and quite detailed have the general time line of the NC side side for machines and controls for all to see.

At that time Y and Z travels were the same X was 400 mm vs. 440 mm. The NC had 3 anti-collision clutches, the A only for the Z axis.
A 4 kW, 40-4000 rpm, feed 2-3600 mm/min, rapid 4 m/min.
NC 5.5 kW, 40-5000 rpm, feed 2-6000 mm/min, rapid 6 m/min.

That was the time when fighting MAHO Deckel creates "lines"

MA = 3150 rpm, a "manually operated CNC" machine
A = 4000 rpm (5A was a former 5NC with 6300 rpm)
NC = 5000 rpm (in spite of the 2 range frilp head)
CC = 6300 rpm



Couple of note of interest to Don.
Summer of 1988
FP1 TNC 113
FP4M TNC 113 B
1992
FP1 TNC 123
FP4M TNC 123

These kind of threads always make for interesting reading. I'm always surprised there isn't more information available from people inside FD. How many people worked at FD in the 70s, 80s, and 90s? Why don't they post here and tell us exactly what was going on with this or that? Googling Deckel FP anything this site comes up first everytime, maybe because its an english speaking site.

Alan

Have you found a forum that covers items from companies where you were employed once and have you joined and told them everything? ;->)

Hermle is in Franklin, WI see if you can talk to Bernd who worked in the green section in Indianapolis at the time Deckel pulled out.

I worked in the semiconductor industry and so far haven't found any forum covering IC chip collecting or whatever. If there actually was someone kooky enough to collect the sort of things we made and they wanted to know why we packed one part in plastic and another in ceramic or some product lineage I would try to help them out. Still I know what you mean....

Not sure what you mean though in your second statement. Franklin isn't too far away, but no way I'd cold call some guy named Bernd to chat about the PracticalMachinist forum. Particularly when I'm not even a potential Hermle customer. What do you mean he worked in the Green section in Indianapolis when Deckel pulled out? What was in Indianapolis?

Alan

Very good idea.
As mentioned elsewhere, my scanner takes about 15 minutes for a colour page.
Cannot buy a new one as no one is buying catalogues and manuals to pay for a new scanner.

For your amusement, here is a little I made for Tony Griffiths:

DECKEL NC/CNC Programming Manuals & associated Machine Manuals
Machine Control Qty Publication Name and Date
post 1983 all 2 4.86 _511_ 874 E.jpg Serial Interface for data I/O
E / C 3 L / V E 201 (?) E 390 - 1.77.jpg Machine Manual only
FP 4 A C 1 2 E 1060 - 4.85 Printer made copy
FP 4 A C 2 1 E 1132 - 3.86.jpg Supplement Graphics / Pocket
FP 4 A machine 1 1072 - 6.86.jpg Part manual for FP4A-C2
FP 2/3/4 NC D 1 1 F 933 DTS - 1.83.jpg Including training pages suppl.
FP 2/3/4 NC D 1 1 D 933 DTS - 1.83.jpg Including training pages suppl.
FP 2/3/4 NC D 1 1 E 933 DTS - 1.83.jpg
FP 2/3/4 NC D 2 4 E 989 - 12.84.jpg
FP 2/3/4 NC D 2 1 D 989 DTS - 12.84.jpg Including training pages suppl.
FP 2/3/4 NC D 2 1 D 989 DTS - 2.84.jpg Including training pages suppl.
FP 2/3/4 NC D 2 1 E 989 - 2.84_US.jpg E 989 - 2.84_US_back.jpg
FP 2/3/4 NC D 2 2 E 989 - 2.84_US_missing cover page.jpg
CNC D 2 2 E 996 - 1.84.jpg Supplement
FP 5 NC D 3 1 D 1050 11-84 P.jpg Provisional Operator Manual
CNC D 2/3 1 E 1061 - 2..85.jpg
CNC D 2/3 1 D 1061 - 2..85.jpg same as above
CNC D 2/3 1 E 1061 - 1084-p.jpg
CNC D 2/3 1 E 1061 - 1084-p_photocopy.jpg
FP 2/3/4 NC D 4 1 E 1151 - 7.86.jpg
FP 2/3/4 NC D 4 1 D 1151 SW1 - 10.86.jpg same as above
FP 2/3/4 NC D 4 1 E 1151 SW1 - 12.86.jpg
FP 42 NC D 4 1 E 1129 - 7.86.jpg
FP 41 / 42 NC machine 1 959 - 6.83
FP 5 NC D 4 1 E 1153 SW1 - 8.86.jpg
CNC D 4 1 E 1212 SWII - 8.87.jpg
CNC D 4 1 D 1212 SWII - 8.87.jpg same as above
FP 3 / 4 / 5 CC D 11 1 E 1321 - 3.89 (SW 3.40) Part 1.jpg
FP 3 / 4 / 5 CC D 11 1 E 1321 - 3.89 (SW 3.40) Part 2.jpg
FP 3 / 4 / 5 CC D 11 1 E 1410 - 3.89 Part 1 Operation.jpg
FP 3 / 4 / 5 CC D 11 1 E 1410 - 3.89 Part 2 Accessories.jpg
FP 3 / 4 / 5 CC D 11 1 E 1320 - 3.89 (SW 3.40).jpg
FP 2 / 3 / 4 NC D 11 1 E 1321 - 3.89 (SW 3.40) Part 1.jpg
FP 2 / 3 / 4 NC D 11 1 E 1321 - 3.89 (SW 3.40) Part 2.jpg
FP 2 / 3 / 4 NC D 11 1 E 1405 - 3.89 Part 1 Operation.jpg
FP 2 / 3 / 4 NC D 11 1 E 1402 - 3.89 Part 2 Accessories.jpg
FP 2 / 3 / 4 NC D 11 1 E 1320 - 3.89 (SW 3.40).jpg
FP 2 / 3 / 4 NC D 11 1 E 1321 - 3.89 (SW 3.40) Part 1.jpg also
FP 2 / 3 / 4 NC D 11 1 E 1321 - 3.89 (SW 3.40) Part 2.jpg Lifting
FP 2 / 3 / 4 NC D 11 1 E 1405 - 3.89 Part 1 Operation.jpg Lube
FP 2 / 3 / 4 NC D 11 1 E 1402 - 3.89 Part 2 Accessories.jpg Transport
FP 2 / 3 / 4 NC D 11 1 E 1320 - 3.89 (SW 3.40).jpg sheets
FP 2 / 3 / 4 NC D 11 1 E Control System Manual Retrofit Kit 12-89
FP 2 / 3 / 4 A C 3 1 E 1319 - 12.88.jpg
FP 2 / 3 / 4 A C 3 1 E 1259 - 4.88.jpg
FP 2 / 3 / 4 A C 3 1 E 1259 - 4.88_Part2 - Accessories.jpg
FP 2 / 3 / 4 A C 3 1 E 1318 - 12.88 Volume 1.jpg
FP 2 / 3 / 4 A C 3 1 E 1318 - 12.88 Volume 2.jpg
FP 2 / 3 / 4 A C 3 1 E 1259 - 4.88_second set.jpg
FP 2 / 3 / 4 A C 3 1 E 1259 - 4.88_Part2 - Accessories_second set.jpg
FP 2 / 3 / 4 A C 3 1 E 1318 - 12.88 Volume_second set 1.jpg
FP 2 / 3 / 4 A C 3 1 E 1318 - 12.88 Volume 2_second set.jpg
CNC D 11 1 E 1321 - 3.89 (SW 3.40) Part 1_Binder.jpg
CNC D 11 1 E 1321 - 3.89 (SW 3.40) Part 2_Binder.jpg
CNC D 11 1 6003 04 018422 00 _5.89_Self study.jpg
Machine D 11 1 D 1321 - 6.88 (SW3.15).jpg Programmers Manual
Machine D 11 1 D 1322 - 1.88 (SW1.15).jpg Control Manual
Machine D 11 1 D 1320 - 6.88 (SW3.15).jpg Control Manual
CNC D 11 1 E 1321 - 10.88 (SW3.15).jpg Printers Copy ?
Machine D 11 1 D 1256 - 1.88.jpg Machine Manual
CNC D 11 1 D 1321 - 6.88 (SW3.88).jpg Programmer Manual
CNC D 11 1 D-Nachrüstsatz (9.89) Korrektur Preliminary.jpg Suppl., corrections
CNC D 11 1 D-SHB Nachrüstsatz Software 4.B (1.91).jpg Supplement, SW 4.B
CNC 3M 1 Sinumeric 3M - 10.83.jpg Photocopy in orange Deckel binder
CNC 3M 1 D 1053 - 9.84.jpg Programming Manual
FP 5 NC 3M 1 D 1049 - 10.84.jpg Operator Manual
FP 2 / 3 / 4 NC 3M 1 E 990 - 8.84 1 of 2.jpg {Plastic bag
CNC 3M 1 E 1053 - 10.84 2 of 2.jpg {was still sealed
Heidenhain TNC 355 1 E 1274 - 4.88.jpg CNC

Well you could just call for Bernd in Service and, should he still be there, just tell him that Arno from Cosa Canda told you to give him a call. No embarrassment on your side if you blame it all on me.

Deckel had bought 5 % of Hurco (with intentions to take it over) and moved into their plant in Indianapolis, leaving their Columbia, MD location.

I order to clearly seaprate the two entitiies all the Hurco stuff was painted blue, including offices and all the Deckel stuff green.

I think scanners are starting at $50? I'll buy you a $100 unit if you get reasonably busy.
I have to closely read your list, but only a few of it I would think to be relevant for laying out the timeline, models, and controls.
Anything that is spiral bound can be put into an automatic scanner. I picked up one of the excellent IBICO binding machines for that.
I also volunteer to do that on loaner documentation.
My scanner takes about 10 sec per page.
The one at work with auto-feed and double sided about 1 sec per page.
Now I have to study your list.

PS I do not see any product range like documentation in it? Some of the docs I do not understand the content of.