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Arboga U-2508 Project

Flying Dutchman

Cast Iron
Joined
Jan 20, 2005
Location
Heemskerk, Holland
Hi All,

I can hear you thinking, what is Arboga doing in a forum on European Milling Machines. Well the U-2508 is a Milling Drilling Machine and it is European. Oh sure, not Deckel, Aciera or who else but still considered to be a serious machine.

First, I am not a machinist whatsoever but I so much enjoyed my SB-9A project last winter so I decided I needed another project for this one.
Most of my 'knowledge' came from lots of reading on forums like this and talking to people 'in the field'.

So was the Arboga my first choice?? No, surely not but it was the only serious thing I could (would) afford. I bought her unseen on E-bay Germany for 955 Euro, which is decent, depending on the condition, to European standards. Next thing up was a very old Deckel FP-1 with the change wheel tyoe table feed at 2400 Euro. Go figure. So am I happy with my new project?? Well, I think I got more than I bargained for from a re-hab project point of view. Please see the continuing story below which will be updated from time to time.

So for those that do not know what the Arboga, should, look like please see below:

ButterP



Fri-30-Sept
So, finaly got the machine in from Germany. Was I pleased?? Hmm, mixed feelings. Surely happy with the size of machine it is, not a big heavy industrial yet not a 'hobby' machine. There is some play in the Spindle and Gears and the electrics look like someone has been hobbying a bit. There are two half molten home type wall sockets on the machine which I think have been used for 'lighting'. I am realy scared to fire it up so I started to cut all the wiring and diasemble the 'switchboard'. There is also some play in the Y direction, or was it X??. Good thing about the machine is that it has original build quality so everything can be fixed. Also the machine has powerfeed to the table with something clever called a anti-collision clutch. Way to go Arboga. Finished for the day.

ButterP


Disassembly underway

http://photobucket.com/albums/a169/ButterP/?action=view&current=DCAM0100.jpg

One very empty Quill and Motorhousing


Tue 04-Oct,
Decided to strip the entire head as well.

http://photobucket.com/albums/a169/ButterP/?action=view&current=DCAM0092.jpg

Empty Gear Housing

http://photobucket.com/albums/a169/ButterP/?action=view&current=DCAM0092.jpg

Gear and Quill remains

I am not really happy with what I am seeing and reconfirms my prejudice against geared things over belts and pulleys. One of the Tufnol main gears has three halfway broken teeth, Not really looking forward to the quote expected from Arboga for a new one.

http://photobucket.com/albums/a169/ButterP/?action=view&current=DCAM0096.jpg

Damaged Teeth on the Main Shaft Tufnol Gear

Also need to replace 80% of the bearings and take two shafts to the machineshop for cutting new keyways at 90 deg. phasing as there is too much play in the current ones. I was quite happy that I ordered the manual with 'www.lathes.co.uk'

Dismounted the Stator from the Quill/Motor Housing and send her to the local re-wirer to have the windings checked and otherwise rewound.(look a bit dodgy)

So far so good. Hey this is a real Milling & Drilling Machine, it can cut up to 5 mil. deep using a 14 mil. cutter. It's column is massive and very ridgid. Probably is going to blow a hole in my budget as I figured about 1000 Euro for the machine and a further 500 Euro for the basic tooling.

Well I don't think I am going to make the budget.

http://photobucket.com/albums/a169/ButterP/?action=view&current=DCAM0099.jpg

A rather sad picture with the machine in it's current state.

For more pictures please use the following link:
web page

Until the next update.

Best regards,

Piet Butter

[ 10-07-2005, 03:07 AM: Message edited by: Flying Dutchman ]
 
"Not really looking forward to the quote expected from Arboga for a new one."

Hi Piet.
have a look here
http://www.hpcgears.com/

yup i know its across the channel........but go to the web site and order their gears book...its free and they will almost certainly have your gear in stock....you may be pleasantly surprised.
all you may have to do is alter one slightly at worst
the book is about 35MM thick

wish you the best of luck with your machine.

oh.......your post would look a lot better and interesting if you posted pics within it with coments........then you would get more attention

looking forward to your updates

all the best..mark
 
Hi Mark,

thanks for your reply. Yeah, I tried to upload pics into the document but whenever I try it asks for an URL instead of a 'browse file' to upload. Have looked at the FAQ's but could not really find an answer.

As far as the gears are concerned, thank you for the lead. I've also found a dutch company that can do me one. Waiting for their quote before I go elswhere. The gears, as you know, are made from Tufnol/Epratex the guy told me that this is a very old style material and is not much in use anymore. He suugested that they could also be made from Nylon GSM which has a very good wear resistance and is 'self lubricating' by the addition of graphite in the material. Have looked at the specs for both materials and it seems to me that Tufnol/Epratex is twice the strength of Nylon GSM. So I am very weary to use Nylon. Also the Nylon is not re-inforced. It very well can be that Nylon does the job as, maybe, no alternatives that T/E were available at the time the machine was designed.

It's a pretty sturdy gear anyway, it's about 20mm thick.

The only thing that puzzled me with this machine is that it has no means of lubricating the gears and bearings from the outside but yet has 'open' type bearings. So I called the factory and was told that this was quite OK. Go figure. But he said "you can use enclosed ones as well, it's up to you" ???

Bye for now.

Piet
 
BTW
As far as im aware the use of tufnol (thats phonolic resin to the usa guys) gears in boxes was as a fuse.
They are ment to break up if you do something wrong.thereby saving the other gears from damage.......
That is if there are only 1 or two tufnol gears in the whole box.........
if all the gears are tufnol..........then this was the company who made the box ...being cheap.
all the best...mark
 
Mark:
Phenolic gears also known as "Fiberoid"(sp) was a design element in some expensieve mechanical devices. The Bugatti type 57 for example uses a phenolic gear as part of the main drive train for the cam drives. It is used not to save money or to act as a fuse but to reduce noise and make the gears quiet.
Cheers Ross
 
Hey Guys,

thanks for your input. Mark, FYI every T/E Gear meshes with a steel one. So I think it is likely a combination of noise reduction and the T/E gears being sacrificial to the steel ones.

Well, on with the news:

Fri 07-10-05

:mad: Received a quote from the local Arboga dealer for the gear, sit tight, 285 Euro ex VAT, Sales Tax, BTW, Mwst whatever you call it at 19%.
That is the complete gear with the bearing and the shift bushing receptacle. Yeah, right. I don't want the complete gear, I only want the gear and rebuild the thing myself.

I am tempted to take an offer from a local company to cut one from Nylon GSM at 70 Euro ex.
Or wait their quote for T/E as well. Apparently, you can only cut T/E gears from Sheet and not from Bar Stock as 'they' say you disturb the fibre layers and will surely destroy the gear in no time. Still have second thoughts on Nylon from a strength point of view, can anyone put my mind at ease??

:mad: :mad: Even worse, just got a phone call from the local 'motor wirer' one of the fields is shot and the rest of the stator doesn't look fit either. Cost; 270 Euro ex. :confused: What to do now. Have a realy purchased a lemon here?? The wife stopped complaining on the rising cost for this, once, great machine. I still believe that it can, and will be, in as good as new state over the fall and maybe winter. No more presents for this guys birthday and 'Sinterklaas' (Saint Nicholas to you) for the next couple of years. Think I will look for someone who does rewiring as a hobby. Don't believe anyone cn have a hobby like that, but you never know.

All bad today??
Nope, just picked up new bearings, keystock and re-splined Moter- and Main shaft. Looks and feels pretty good, no noticable play anymore. Great.

Until next.

Piet Butter
 
Sat 08-10-05

Hey Mark,

surely a good looking :eek: machine but at 1,250 GBP approx. 1,950 Euro without powerfeed not really cheap either. If external looks could be taken as a reliable indicator to the condition of internals this would be defenately be the machine to buy. But as in many cases looks ar sometimes deceiving.

:rolleyes: Have I done anything today?? You bet, removed all paint from the two Gearbox shells and the Motor/Quill Housing. Underneeth the 'German Green' was the original Arboga Blue/Green Hammerite type painting. I love hammerite on a vise or 5,99 Toolbox but not on a machine as I think it makes them look cheap. Decided that I will paint it in the same color as my South Bend. Also did a lot of thinking :rolleyes: and decided to, probably, have the original motor rewound. Been calling around to look for alternative solutions such as buying a new Dahlander wound motor (150 Euro's vs 270 for a rewind), remove the Stator and fit it into the M/Q Housing. Was kind of put off by people saying that the change of finding a motor with the right stator and also accepting the current rotor was a good a 'striking oil on the moon'. So I still may look for a secondhand motor motor for a couple of Euro's and still try.
I bet that the factory, being very responsive to my questions so far, not going to tell me who their supplier is so I can check in what other motor brands or types they are used. The distributor and local dealer do not really know anything about the machines and probably do not know what they look like internally. On my question if they've ever repaired one, they said that they ship them back to Sweden. Hmm, I wonder if they are selling any of these machines if you can not service them. It is kind of buying a Chrysler here and send it back to Detroit for repair. :confused:

:D Ah well, enough whining, get back to my positive self again and fix this machine and make it better than when it left Sweden, for the first time that is.

Sorry, no pics today. Did not ahve time toda as were in preparation of building an extra shed / barn.

Regards,

Piet
 
Wed. 12-Oct-2005

Hi there, back again. Have I been doing much?? Mwahh, not really. Today I took the Motor/Quil Housing to the motor rewinders for them to fit the Stator back in once it has been rewound. By the by, I'm having it rewound to 230 V 3-phase. Why, because I do not have 380V installed in the house plus I think it will sell a lot better, if I ever wanted to, when it is 230V as folks only need to buy a VFD to hook it up to the net. The good thing is that the motor of the Table Feed can run on both 380/230V.
Also ordered a new gear, decided to have it made of Delrin instead of Tufnol/Epratex, as it is a lot easier to get and considerable cheaper as well. According to the machine shop and the plastic expert a lot of high load gears nowadays are cut from Delrin. I'll let you know on the outcome as soon as the machine takes its first cut. If it loks okay I probaly will cut all new 'spare' gears from Delrin so I do not have to back and spend the extra money although I do not believe it will happen that quick, but as I am a metalworking novice.....

Till next time when I will update this post with some pics.

Best regards,


Piet Butter
 
Toolco got a cheek asking that much for that The quill handle is missing and the hand feed handle is broken,all that`s left is the boss out the moulded plastic handwheel.Apart from that if you took the crap MEM contactor of it looks like mine
regards Mark.
 
Mark,these contactors have been obsolete for at least 25 years and although common at one time,were not exactly brilliantly designed.The biggest problem with them was the fact that the contactor was on its back when mounted and dust would lie on the pole faces creating noise.The other problem was that there was no provision for extra auxillary contacts.
regards,Mark.
 
Hey guys,

thanks for the reply.

My finefeed handwheel is missing as well, are these truly plastic on later models???

What the heck is a MEM contactor?? Is it the same as a 0 voltage switch??

I have to see if my thermal motor protector switch can be adjusted as it will see higher current due to the 230V rewind.

BFN

Piet
 
Mark,

hmmm, kind of awkward place to put those I guess. Do you need to open the machine and reset them everytime you loose power??

The Arboga does not have one fitted nor does my SB-9A Lathe. I think I'll fit one between the VFD and the socket, that way I will have both machines covered.

Gear News:

well, I think my 'Gearman' is getting P'd-off with me for changing my mind more often than my underwear but asked him to make the gear from Tufnol/Epratex. Was getting kind of worried on the last replies in the 'General' section. But I will still go and find out what modern day material is currently used in high load applications. I can not see the Gear Case ever reach a temp of 150C and melt the gears but I would not know if there was a very 'local' temperature rise in the gear just by pressure/force of the tooth contact itself so it gets locally workhardened/softened.

until next,

Piet
 
The contactors are made to fit multi applications.
The on off buttons on them are for running with the cover removed fault finding etc.
the wires you see in the foreground go to remote start buttons on a hinged compartment cover that you cant see in the picture.
This is how they looked before I overhauled them.
I've lost the pics of overhauling them when I had a virus on my computer.
Can't advise on gears but I would go with what the guy said about tufnol sheet rather than round bar tufnol.........something to do with the lay of the cloth in it....makes sence to me.
all the best.....mark
 
Hi Piet,
I am looking for gears for my Arboga drilling machine. The gears are 2 MOD size. In HPC Gears catalogue the difference in torque is as follows:
(50 teeth 1000 rpm)
Steel 214M15: 25 Nm
Brass: 12,5 Nm
Tufnol: 10 Nm
Delrin: 6 Nm
Maybe something to consider for your choice?

HPC Gears

/Ola
 
Ola,

didn't realize that you already been here.

So below is a copy of the reply posted in the General 'Plastic Gear' forum.

Yet another thing is puzzling :rolleyes: me a bit, according to Lathes.co.uk these machines were sold by the bushel in bothe the UK and North America so you would think there are a lot more people that own one that would have questions about them unless it is me that is kind of dumb :D or are they all been scrapped or, ultimately, do people not know it is mill as well and just think they've bought a Coordinate Drill Press because you can not fit a Drawbar :confused:

Well, I think I am in the wrong forum but there is no other 'European forum' so it's all I have.


Hey Ola,

welcome to the discussion. Well I decided in al my wisdom to have it made from Tufnol/Epratex. As you listed it is almost twice he strenght of Delrin. The only thing we still do not know at this time is wether Delrin would have been OK to use as well.

Arboga still builds a modern version of the same machine called the U2408-U and still clains that they have fibre reenforced gears so I presume they still use T/E. I tried to get an offer from Arboga for the gear only, so not including the bearing and the Shift Bushing Receptacle, as I call it. They only offered a complete gear with all the works for 285,- Euro ex Tax. So I thought that was a bit steep. The 'local' machine shop is making me one (gear only) for 90 Euro's incl. tax and even offered me to do two for 110,- , go figure what I will do. If to your interest there is a link higher up the thread somewhere were I post my proceedings concerning the rebuild of my Arboga 2508-U.

Best regards,


Piet
 








 
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