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Convert Wohlhaupter w/4MT shank to MK4

Joined
Aug 10, 2007
Location
West Coast
I recently bought a Gamet boring head from Stephen Thomas, but unfortunately it was just a tad big on the Deckel. It had a 3/4" straight shank on it. After using it, the inertia from the heavy head would tighten up the MK4 collet, which is undesirable to me.:(

I sold that head to digger doug, and found a Wohlhaupter w/4MT shank on ebay for $300 which was clean. Unfortunately it had a non-removable shank...life is such...:angry:
wohlly-with-4MT-shank.jpg

The first thing I needed to do is cut down a 2.5" straight to MT4 adapter, I'll use the section of adapter when I want to make Deckel MK4 tooling. Damn, this was tough to cut...there is some method to my marking, but was thinking it through as I was going...you can see I have several marks calculating how long I wanted to the sleeve.

wohlly-cutting-4mt-straight-adapter.jpg wohlly-marking-madness.jpg

I finally got it cut, the bottom section is what I'll use.

wohlly-finally-got-adapter-cut.jpg

Since the Wohlly has a non-removable shank, I decided to use an angle grinder to wack the top off the Wohlly shank. Much quicker than the adapter sleeve!
wohlly-cut-top-off-wohlly-shank-with-angle-grinder.jpg
 
Next was to get the shank cleaned up. I cleaned it up on the grinder, then used a bastard file to do final finish on the top. This was really difficult to thread, I only have HSS hand taps, and this HSS is pretty hard to cut with HSS.

wohlly-cut-down-and-threaded.jpg

I decided to grind some of the plug down on the 5/8-11 side. Did I mention this was difficult to tap? :rolleyes5:

I just went slow and had a bunch of cheap taps, but I got it done which is what counts. :cheers:

wohlly-ground-end-of-plug-down.jpg

Here's the Wohlhaupter cut down, threaded with the plug installed. I need to find my Loctite 242, and this will be done.

wohlly-with-plug-in-place.jpg
 
Looks good and now you have another tool that fits right in the spindle; Can't go wrong there.
Dan


Thanks Dan, it does feel good to get a tool like this for my mill, and especially since I was able to do it myself.

I'm not completely clear on the Wohlhaupter operation, and to be honest the Gamet boring head I had bought from Stephen Thomas operated slightly nicer. The Gamet would click for each revolution so you could count as it was spinning on the mill. I don't think the Wohlhaupter does that. I can get the stop to trip on the Wohlhaupter, and it then reverses the direction, so my understanding is that you keep feeding with either the stop rod or by grabbing the top knurl feed ring, at which point it reverses when it hits the stop and trips, and when it reaches the beginning it seems you need to turn the mill off and reset it by hand. Some youtube videos I've seen where they stop the mill, loosen the set screw, adjust it by hand for the exact amount, then tighten the set screw and turn the machine on....lather, rinse, repeat...for each cut. I guess that would work also, but I was looking for the more automated way of using the Wohly...

The Wohlhaupter is a very nice piece of tooling, no doubt. I look forward to using it.

Cheers,
Alan
 
Alan, very good that you adapted this to work. But I did not understand why you needed to cut down a 2.5" straight to MT4 adapter. Was this to get the S20x2 threaded section to fit the drawbar? Cheers, Bruce
 
Alan, very good that you adapted this to work. But I did not understand why you needed to cut down a 2.5" straight to MT4 adapter. Was this to get the S20x2 threaded section to fit the drawbar? Cheers, Bruce


Bruce,

No, it was so that I could secure it in a vise and/or in the lathe. In this case since the shank was permanently attached, I couldn't use the sleeve on the lathe.

I used the sleeve for a couple things. I used it to secure the boring head in a vise when I cut the top off the MT4 shank with the angle grinder, and I used it to clamp into a v-block to hold the boring head on the mill table. I also found that I could run a 3/4" rod thought the boring head and clamp each side on a v-block. In the future I can use the sleeve when I cut others.

BTW, I just got back from the mill, and using the Wohlhaupter is more intuitive on the mill. There's a feed button on the side, and there's a return button on the top. I set the stop to zero the head, and spread the other stop out. I pushed the feed button in and depressed the return button on top. Started the mill. I could then hold the top knurl. After it reached the other stop and tripped the feed button, I could move the top ring around and push the return button while the mill was running, then both knurl rings were locked together and it returned quickly, when it reached the zero stop, I let go and turned the mill off and it was just a matter of moving the ring a tad to push the feed button back in.

I like how it works and this is a much better size for the FP1 than the Gamet I had, although the Gamet for the 1/2" tools would be a good size for the FP1.

Cheers,
Alan

PS - got a box from Singer today. I ordered a ER32 collet chuck and more plugs. I got 16mm->S20x2 plugs as I see more of the 16mm tooling...however, I will still need to cut most of it down, AFAIK, as MK4 is not a plug and play shank, and neither is the SK40. Singer's tooling is though, the plugs just screw into them. Hmmm....he must have them made special in China.
 
I'm a little congfused by your conversions:
"MK" is the German language abbreviation for "MT".
So what I read is that you had to make Morse Konus adapter to Morse Taper - which are the same thing....
Or did you mean you removed the tang off the end of a MT4 shank and replaced it with a S20 thread to make the fitting suit the Deckel drawbar?
 
AFAIK, as MK4 is not a plug and play shank, and neither is the SK40. Singer's tooling is though, the plugs just screw into them. Hmmm....he must have them made special in China.

Think the plug and play tooling for the adapters that Singer sells would be for CAT40 or BT40 tools.
Those holders do not have the extended straight section at the end as on the SK40 holders.
Of course you need either the 16mm male thread for the holder (BT) or the 5/8" thread (CAT) to fit up.

Most Morse tooling is made with drive tangs which makes them too long to be used without modification...

As to the "Wally" head.....Have used these for years and i never use the "coupling" pin on the top of the upper knurled ring......
When facing the bottom of a bore (last step really) I engage the feed pin (on the side of the head) and grasp the upper knurled ring to make the head feed out.
When it hits the travel stop the added resistance forces the feed pin to pop out and stop the feed....To retract, i just grasp the lower ring while the head is in motion...Does the same thing as pushing in the upper plunger,
and has the bonus that when starting the out feed again one only needs to push in the feed plunger again (side of the head) and restart the spindle.

The feed system on the "Wally" is constant while holding the upper knurled ring...so there is no jump out at one point unlike the "Gamet" heads...
Nice thing here is that when facing at low RPM you can allow the ring to slip some in your grasp thereby giving a lower feed rate....
Also, rarely use the stops...I prefer to control the position of the tool as to moving out by letting go of the upper feed ring.....


Hold the ring till the tool touches the corner of the bore, then let go. Fine for initial cuts.
Cheers Ross

On edit:
Finally, if you are going to be modifying existing Morse holders, may i suggest investing in some soft jaw blanks for your 3-Jaw chuck (assuming you have removable top jaws) and then machine them with an ID taper to directly grip the Morse holders....Will make your life so much easier.
 
Most Morse tooling is made with drive tangs which makes them too long to be used without modification...

Yeah, that part kinda sucks, IMO. ;)

As to the "Wally" head.....Have used these for years and i never use the "coupling" pin on the top of the upper knurled ring......

Hmmm...that's an interesting thought...

When facing the bottom of a bore (last step really) I engage the feed pin (on the side of the head) and grasp the upper knurled ring to make the head feed out. When it hits the travel stop the added resistance forces the feed pin to pop out and stop the feed....To retract, i just grasp the lower ring while the head is in motion...Does the same thing as pushing in the upper plunger,

I will try that Ross, thanks for pointing that out! :cheers:

On edit:
Finally, if you are going to be modifying existing Morse holders, may i suggest investing in some soft jaw blanks for your 3-Jaw chuck (assuming you have removable top jaws) and then machine them with an ID taper to directly grip the Morse holders....Will make your life so much easier.

Good idea, that would work for the lathe certainly. The sleeve can still be useful for times when I need to secure it in a vise, although it would be most useful if tapped for a set screw to secure it on the taper. That sleeve is a hunk of HSS...BTW, I just got a tool post grinder not long ago, not as good as a surface grinder, but good enough to do soft jaws.
 
Soft jaws should be machinable with normal cutting tools...I use mostly aluminum jaws as they are easier to machine and don't mar the parts.
For extended work steel jaws are better , but should still be machinable.

Of course for lathe work using a stop disc seated on your master (bottom) jaws to set everything tight before boring the jaws for the part....
I generally bore the jaws just under (.001-.002) the true size of the part. That way when gripped the part will be bearing at two points on each jaw..
Of course if boring tapered for the Morse Taper that rule can't apply because the size is dependent on how far you insert the part into the jaw....

Also if you have a chuck with soft jaws..its OK to mount the chuck on the mill table using hold downs...I do it often . Just pull the cam lock pins out of the back plate and set the chuck down
on the table.

Cheers Ross
 
Soft jaws should be machinable with normal cutting tools...I use mostly aluminum jaws as they are easier to machine and don't mar the parts. For extended work steel jaws are better , but should still be machinable.

I have a chuck with soft jaws, it's a combination 4-jaw chuck.

Of course if boring tapered for the Morse Taper that rule can't apply because the size is dependent on how far you insert the part into the jaw....

While that's true, doesn't the amount which the jaws are open determine how much play you have in the taper being held in the jaws? IOW, the taper is always the same and you will have some variance depending on where you hold the actual taper.

Also if you have a chuck with soft jaws..its OK to mount the chuck on the mill table using hold downs...I do it often . Just pull the cam lock pins out of the back plate and set the chuck downon the table.

That would work with the chuck I have as it doesn't have a back plate on it at the moment. However, my lathe has an L0 spindle and the back of the thread would register on the table, I would just loose a bunch of vertical, like 3"-4" for the long taper. I could probably make a large sleeve to use the chuck on the mill after I get a back plate on it. Thanks for the comments, there's always something to learn from you! ;)
 
When it hits the travel stop the added resistance forces the feed pin to pop out and stop the feed....To retract, i just grasp the lower ring while the head is in motion...Does the same thing as pushing in the upper plunger,

Thanks for that tip, I tried it out and it works fine. I need to grab it pretty tightly after it trips the feed button, but it did work as you mentioned and returns it to the start quickly. :cheers:

Cheers,
Alan
 
That would work with the chuck I have as it doesn't have a back plate on it at the moment. However, my lathe has an L0 spindle and the back of the thread would register on the table, I would just loose a bunch of vertical, like 3"-4" for the long taper. I could probably make a large sleeve to use the chuck on the mill after I get a back plate on it. Thanks for the comments, there's always something to learn from you! ;)

Alan:
Don't discount the ability to grip that chuck in the jaws of a vise and work on the part using the horizontal...might provide needed head room with the proper setup.

Yes,getting the head to return rapid by grasping the lower ring takes more effort as the head tends to get crowded on to the size limit stop. Amount of effort can be reduced some by lowering the tension of
the screw with spring that holds the feed plunger engaged.(detent) It is the small slotted screw just above the slide on the end in the direction of the feed, on the same side as the limit stop "T" slots . By
loosening that screw the holding detent will have less effect and allow the feed plunger to "kick" out at a lower force, thereby crowding the stop less and making the rapid return easier to start....Glad it worked for you...
Cheers Ross
 
Alan:
Don't discount the ability to grip that chuck in the jaws of a vise and work on the part using the horizontal...might provide needed head room with the proper setup.

Good point. I really need to get a chain hoist in place so I can left some of the accessories, I feel there's a few things I could have used the horizontal for but didn't because I was lazy to take the vertical head off. For some tooling, I could just swing it out of the way, but I'd like to use the horizontal arbor. Slowly things are coming together.

Yes,getting the head to return rapid by grasping the lower ring takes more effort as the head tends to get crowded on to the size limit stop. Amount of effort can be reduced some by lowering the tension of the screw with spring that holds the feed plunger engaged.(detent) It is the small slotted screw just above the slide on the end in the direction of the feed, on the same side as the limit stop "T" slots . By loosening that screw the holding detent will have less effect and allow the feed plunger to "kick" out at a lower force, thereby crowding the stop less and making the rapid return easier to start....Glad it worked for you...
Cheers Ross

I have that screw adjusted pretty loose, but don't want it to fall out, I think it was just getting jammed into the stop when it tripped the feed button.

The Wohlhaupter is a nice piece of tooling to have on the Deckel. Really glad I bit the bullet and got that done.

Cheers,
Alan
 
First time to use the Wohlhaupter this past weekend. I only have one boring bar, it's an old Pratt Whitney 3/4" tool that will cut a 1/2" hole min. Well, it used to cut a 1/2" hole min., but now it will cut one smaller. In my infinite wisdom, the Gamet documentation said to run the head at 100 rpm so you can hear the head clicking. I wanted to use the auto feed and this is a 1/2" piece of 6061 aluminum, so I put it at my min speed on the FP1, which is 190 right now (I only have the high speed active on the motor). Well, that wasn't good for the carbide tip on the boring bar, and it crunched the tip off before I could get to the off switch. I could hear it wasn't right.

Doing some research I saw that most people were boring between 500-1000 rpm. Luckily I have a small carbide wheel on one of my bench grinders, so I could clean up the boring bar tip and make it usable once again. I set the Deckel for 750 rpm and whola, that worked better, but the tip was getting very hot and leaving aluminum stuck to the edge of the carbide. So I bumped it down to 475 rpm and that worked fine. Oh, I had drilled out to almost 1" before I used the boring bar, but next time I would probably just start boring. As I said, this was my first time, so was doing some trial and error.

I have a stainless tube that is 1.487" in diameter which I want to fixture in the index attachment, and the center of the ROHM chuck is 90mm from the table. This is currently a slip fit. I didn't use the auto feed on the Wohlhaupter, but rather stopped and reset and locked the head each time. That did allow me to reach my diameter and hit it pretty much spot on. I still need to slot the side of the hole and put a screw, which I will use to tighten around the tube, and the bottom slot will allow me to clamp this to the table. So, one end will be held in the ROHM 3-jaw on my index attachment and the other end will be held in this fixture which will be clamped to the table and tightened to the stainless tube. That way I can index the tube as I mill it.

The Wohlhaupter gave a very nice finish on the inside diameter. I was impressed, it's a fine tool. Not sure if you can see, this is not a great pic. The hole is 90mm to center from the bottom, below the clamp slot.

tube-supoort-for-index-fixture.jpg


Cheers,
Alan

PS - I did also mill a t-nut to size for my Themac tool post grinder, and made another tool I needed for a project. Got a fair amount of time in on the Deckel this weekend. The above was the only thing I used the Wohlhaupter for though. :)
 








 
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