Deckel FP3 serial

dave111 · May 11, 2015

Hi, just got myself a Deckel FP3 from an auction this weekend.
Serial 0552 on the left hand side door
2028-0188 on the y axis ram
and 2231-0111 on the universal table

if anyone can help me determine the year of this machine it would be much appreciated.

Heres some pics, enjoy!

dave111 · May 11, 2015

Electrical upgrade looks nice, although I'll probably be replacing with a vfd shortly.

The rear panel + door were installed, I took them off to get a look inside.

So far I can tell the ways need some cleaning but everything functions as it should, took a test cut - spindle seems okay

DRO is an Anilam miniwizard model 102-2, looks ancient but works great.

I hope to strip the machine and clean + repaint as time permits

v22 · May 11, 2015

Going purely by the dials, hand wheels and table I would say late 60's early 70's. My FP2 is 1969 according to Singer. It has the same visual attributes as your FP3 minus the square head.

dave111 · May 24, 2015

Started the teardown this weekend. Got the vertical spindle apart and the double angle portion as well.

The spindle bearings had minor pitting, looks like some water got in there at some point. cleaned it as best I could I'll deal with it when it starts giving me trouble.

I was trying to figure out where this machine came from originally. On the vertical head I scraped some paint away and revealed a property of general dynamics pomona division sticker, interesting.

So far a few things need some work:

spindle bearing locknut - I had to tap for an M5 set screw, after I reassembled the spindle and snugged the bearing lock nut I set the spindle up in my lathe, held the quill and spun it around 200rpm. The nut started to back off but I can't tighten it anymore or it locks up so I figured the set screw should fix that.

the key for the quill body needs to be replaced, pretty sure I can make something up for it

I dont have good dissassembly pics of the quill and double angle head...too much grease on my hands

The end goal is to strip/clean and repaint the machine

heres some pics:

dave111 · May 24, 2015

more pics, used an internal bearing puller with a slide hammer to pull the quill bushing

dave111 · May 24, 2015

Peter from Holland · May 25, 2015

Make sure to notice all the shims behind those bevelgears and put them back the same
But I would check the position of those gears anyhow by bleuing

Peter from holland

ballen · May 25, 2015

Hi Dave,

good looking machine, it will clean up nicely! Are the ways in good shape? Any sign that grease has been used to lubricate the support (knee)? If so, that is a Bad Thing as the grease blocks the internal oil passages, one should use bedway oil, but lots of people inject grease into the "grease nipples" because that's what they are used to.

Could you please add your location to your profile? I suppose you are in the USA but we can't tell because you don't have that in your profile yet. It's required by the forum rules.

Cheers, Bruce

dave111 · May 25, 2015

Peter - thanks for the tip, I did manage to get all the shims out and set them aside for reassembly. One thing, I was told with bevel gears in an automotive differential once they are worn in they should be reassembled with the same shims. Even if they were set up not so well, they should still be reassembled with the same shims just for wear reasons. I see both sides of the argument....hopefully it meshes well with existing shims

I can see a faint remnant of the blue dye on the face of the gears so I know someone did blue them at some point.

Bruce - I can't really tell just yet how the ways are - Y axis slides very well. X and Z are a bit stiff. Someone covered the exposed ways with grease for protection I'm assuming.

One of my main goals with disassembling this machine was to clean the oil passages, I pumped the way lube pump a couple times but didn't notice any difference in sliding so I think it needs a good cleaning.

Thanks for the interest
-Dave

ballen · May 26, 2015

dave111 said:
I can't really tell just yet how the ways are - Y axis slides very well. X and Z are a bit stiff. Someone covered the exposed ways with grease for protection I'm assuming. One of my main goals with disassembling this machine was to clean the oil passages, I pumped the way lube pump a couple times but didn't notice any difference in sliding so I think it needs a good cleaning.

If your machine has a lube pump then probably all is fine, that ensures that oil rather than grease goes to the slideways.

You can partly inspect the condition of the ways very easily, just remove (one at a time, so nothing falls off!) the backing/bearing plates from X and Z and inspect them for scraping marks. The backing/bearing plates are steel, and bear against cast-iron ways. The curious thing is that almost all of the wear takes place in the harder (steel) plates, because the cast-iron part acts like a lap to wear away the harder material. So this is not conclusive but very indicative.

Another easy wear test is to pull out the tapered gibs, and inspect those for scraping marks.

Cheers,
Bruce

AlfaGTA · May 26, 2015

ballen said:
If your machine has a lube pump then probably all is fine, that ensures that oil rather than grease goes to the slideways.

The backing/bearing plates are steel, and bear against cast-iron ways. The curious thing is that almost all of the wear takes place in the harder (steel) plates, because the cast-iron part acts like a lap to wear away the harder material. So this is not conclusive but very indicative

Cheers,
Bruce

Pretty sure that FP3's use Turcite as a wear surface on the back "keeper" plates.....
Also FP3's AFAIK all had "One Shot" lube systems.....Pretty sure all Deckel machines originally
fitted with the "one Shot" setups have 220 way oil specified. Earlier versions with oil nipples use the ISO68 way oil....
FYI...Replacement for the "Vactra #4 (ISO 220) is now Mobil Vacuoline 1419....Vactra i not the same product as it used to be...

Dave111:
Can't nail down your production date , but i will offer that that i believe your machine is fairly early in the FP3 production....
Looks different from my FP3 (Ser# 3779) which i believe was built in the mid to late 70's...

Your handwheels appear to be a transition handle style between the early "put the handle peg in the hole", and the pull out to engage later style handles.
Perhaps they were changed along the way, or something Deckel used for a short time. Your "One Shot" pump is different...End castings on the "X" slide look different to me as well, and
the electrical controls only have two buttons ....(no e-stop)
Also, your machine has 3 "T" slots on the vertical table mount...Pretty sure later they went to a 5 slot configuration with tables to match.

Cheers Ross

Danny VanVoorn · May 26, 2015

The double tilting vertical head caught my eye, I haven't noticed that feature on many Deckel millers.
Dan

Peter from Holland · May 26, 2015

Ross
I have taken apart some Deckel FP3`s And on at least the older ones,before 1979, I have never seen any turcite on them

Dan
The wierd thing is those dubble angle headed Deckels bring €2000,- less as one with a straight head
They are more noisy in general and also the spindles are not in the middle of the X-axe movement
The most wanted FP3 has a fixed table and a straight head

Peter from holland

dave111 · May 26, 2015

Hi Dan, this was the first one I've seen with a double tilting head, once I googled it I found a few more...I guess its rare. I kinda like it, all the handwheels are on the side of the machine so its easier to reach the quill to drill with the double angle head (at least I think it will be easier)

Ross - the handwheels are the pull out to engage style....I will be removing those pesky springs in the handwheels. Thanks for the tip on the way lube

Tonight I removed the ram for the vert head. I realized I did it the hard way. Once I removed the little keeper plate, I slid it off as far as I could, supported the end with a large block and slinged it with the forklift. In pic 2 I could have lifted.....didn't notice the opening of the casting till I wrestled it all the way off by sliding the dovetails completely off.

Anyways, job done for the evening and I didn't drop anything

Edit: The last pic - don't know if those marks mean anything. That is the area directly under the little keeper plate

AlfaGTA · May 26, 2015

Look carefully inside the "Y" slide now that the vertical head base casting is off.
Toward the front there should be some catch troughs on each side...
Should be some cotton wicks in those troughs to feed oil to the Y slides....

While you are here they should be replaced...Un-waxed candle wicks works well (hobby store)
Make them up with at least one fold of the wick and lightly twisted together..install so that the folded end goes toward the way surface ,but very not proud. The loose ends stay in
the catch trough.....Oil feeds by capillary action to the slide....

Cheers Ross

Danny VanVoorn · May 27, 2015

peterve said:
Ross
I have taken apart some Deckel FP3`s And on at least the older ones,before 1979, I have never seen any turcite on them

Dan
The wierd thing is those dubble angle headed Deckels bring €2000,- less as one with a straight head
They are more noisy in general and also the spindles are not in the middle of the X-axe movement
The most wanted FP3 has a fixed table and a straight head

Peter from holland

I can see the double tilting head would be a bit noisier (twice the gearing) but still a useful feature, would make some work a breeze. Funny thing about the resale difference, I'd be willing to bet it cost that much more to buy it new with that feature though.
I used to run large Cincinnati versi power mills with that feature, the head could be set up on either side of the ram. Also ran it once set up to use the X axis to bore a hole in a large part. Handy as could be although a bear to get it all squared up and parallel with the other axis.
Dan

v22 · May 28, 2015

dave111 said:
Ross - the handwheels are the pull out to engage style....I will be removing those pesky springs in the handwheels.

The same pull-out style as my 69 FP2. I would think twice about moving the spring. The wheels spin faster than one expects under power feed and those springs stop them from impacting you. I find them a really nice feature and I expect you will when you tram your vise. Leaning to see a DTI or lifting the knee whilst under rapids (or even feed) could cost you your left nut without that spring.

dave111 · Jun 8, 2015

Got the vertical head ram apart. One T-nut was broken so I got it out, the sheet metal strip broke in the process so now there will be a few nuts floating in the slot, hopefully its not too difficult to assemble the angle head on there later

dave111 · Jun 8, 2015

A few points on disassembly for those who may need it. This bushing

is held in with a set screw hiding under the paint + aluminium plug on the side

The long gears' shaft is held with a set screw from the bottom (dovetail side) easy to spot

This little guy had me scratching my head. The headed screw is removed from the top of the ram (where one would expect a lifting eye hole) I thought it was just an oil plug but then I stuck a flat head screwdriver down there and found the last set screw it holds the big long tube/output shaft assembly in place.

dave111 · Jun 8, 2015

The rear bearing is not quite in the housing all the way, its pretty easy to slide it axially, not sure whats up with it yet. the bearing can spin pretty easy in the housing so it will need some attention for sure

Someone ground the dowels down for the housing, they are tapered so I guess just drive them in deeper at assembly time

Measured the limits before disassembly, afterwards I noticed they are dowelled...one dowel is broken off in the limit block (not in the y axis thankfully)so its not being used...odd. someone has definitely been in here before

The plastic wipers (I think that is what the orange-ish plastic pieces are for) are all crumbling so I will make something up for replacements

Also a point of concern is the aluminium housing is cracked at the back, must've over travelled at some point

Deckel FP3 serial

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