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The 1990 FP2A with 4th axis is reborn !

Milacron

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http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=200672801651

Some of you might remember this originally had full coolant enclosure...but rather than replace all the glass and gaskets I decided to remove it and I had recreated a more toolroom/prototype oriented chip pan identical to the one on my other FP2A. I decided to paint this one hammertone gray however, rather than the green that was standard in the late 80's.

This is also the machine that somehow got coolant in the Z ballscrew and ruined it, so replaced with one that seems like new from Mud Enterprises.

Also cleaned it up so it looks really nice and clean now. Not really satisfied with the photos however, as it looks even better in real life...wonder if I need a better camera or what..had plenty of light. The video quality sucks as I used an iPhone 4 for that...plus I now see I should have turned off the Waldman light... oh well...

Will anyone in this country care ? Probably not, but just thought I'd give it a shot before creating export grade skids and targeting Europe.
 
Looks pretty good to me, except the color is uneven. Sort of looks like you had several types of lighting, so the white balance is off from area to area.
 
Nice job Don !

Maybe wipe down machine with varsol to give it a
more even luster. I'll have to search the grey
paint thread for the color, looks great.
How does the grey hammertone cover and
does it seem to hold up well ?

PS : Tire foam works great on the plastics / hoses

A+
 
Will anyone in this country care ? Probably not, but just thought I'd give it a shot before creating export grade skids and targeting Europe.

Targeting Europe? Even given the current exchange rate I doubt that to be promissing at getting the same price. The "2" size is less sellable in the professional world, but one may speculate on the steam engine building dentist. The full enclosure is actually value enhancing. You may want to mention its existance in the auction. All the accessory hook-ups under the x-servo are quite rare on an A-machine.
The 4th axis can be very valuable in itself, but obviously not necessarily to everyone interested in the machine.
Really Ross should buy the 4th axis from you (or at least try to). Its plug and play on his machines.
Peter has to step in now and mention CE certification for import into Europe. I would then mention all the CE stamps in the cabinet, which he would reject as irrelevant a.s.o.
You can ship a couple of machines in a 20'container to me (I have space now), so you can advertise "machine located at Procyon Europe branch".
Surely then someone from the Americas would step forward.

Martin
 
Really Ross should buy the 4th axis from you (or at least try to). Its plug and play on his machines.

You can ship a couple of machines in a 20'container to me (I have space now), so you can advertise "machine located at Procyon Europe branch".
Surely then someone from the Americas would step forward.
Re size, in the Euro target mix would be the 1991 FP3NC flip head with all AC Bosch drives and full enclosure. Seems to be the first FP2-4NC model that was really designed for full enclosure from the get go instead of as an accessory. A little ironic as all the Bosch stuff on that one is quite common here in the used and NOS market...unlike the previous Bosch and Siemens setup, the later AC drive Bosch motors and drives were used on many machines besides Deckels over here. I bought a NOS in the original box Bosch module I didn't even need it was so cheap.

Re 4th axis, yeah I wonder if FPS or Singer wouldn't want as much Euro for just the Walter and Bosch drive card as I want for the entire machine ? For a fair price I would seperate the 4th out.

Re 20 foot container...do you have room for 40 foot container load ? If not, perhaps you could act as broker and ad translator ?

5308414.jpg
 
Looks pretty good to me, except the color is uneven. Sort of looks like you had several types of lighting, so the white balance is off from area to area.
True...some shots were overwhelmed by the shop overhead lights and some by the "daylight balanced" stand lights...and then I had one stand light with way more lumens than the other one. I wonder if I had a daylight balanced light directly overhead hanging from a long pole might that be better. Sharpness/resolution is disappointing to me on long shots...even though I used nice Canon with large reflex sized lens. Reminds me a little of the iPhone stills in that they are fantastic on closeups but suck on all else.

Funny, I used to be ok at photography but have sort of "forgot" how to do it. Some of it's the medium I suppose. The below I took years ago with medium format film camera (Mamiya 645 I think) and twin flash (with helper)

hendyshaper.jpg


Keep in mind above is scan of magazine print, showing on computer screen. Original negative was razor sharp...every scrape mark visible as in real life.
 
Seems to be the first FP2-4NC model that was really designed for full enclosure from the get go instead of as an accessory.

I do not understand why you say that since the enclosure is basically the same as on the older machines. The improvements on the newer machines were only a bit more sturdiness, less windows, and less accessiblity due to german OSHA equivalent ("EuroStandard"enclosure).
Your picture of the FP3NC shows the older enclosure, which is the same as on the D1-4 machines except for the missing back windows and less parts.

Re 4th axis, yeah I wonder if FPS or Singer wouldn't want as much Euro for just the Walter and Bosch drive card as I want for the entire machine ? For a fair price I would seperate the 4th out.

There are enough used Bosch drives floating around. At FPS you would probably need to spend 2k for 1 axis? A brand name 4th axis I can not estimate the price. A new Nikken is at maybe 15 or 20K?
A used Deckel 4th axis I'd put at 2 to 6k, Euro that is, and with cards. Higher if the customer is industry.

Re 20 foot container...do you have room for 40 foot container load ? If not, perhaps you could act as broker and ad translator ?

Since you ask, YES I have the space!!!! From tomorrow anyway, when the gates are being installed.
A 20' container will do 2 Deckel NCs. A 40' container about 5 Deckels. Buts thats a lot of space once set up.


Shop status 2 weeks ago:
23_10_5.jpg


Its the same building as shown here (after heavy modification):
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...abene-mills/larger-deckel-tables-ebay-110249/
 
There are enough used Bosch drives floating around. At FPS you would probably need to spend 2k for 1 axis? A brand name 4th axis I can not estimate the price. A new Nikken is at maybe 15 or 20K?
A used Deckel 4th axis I'd put at 2 to 6k, Euro that is, and with cards. Higher if the customer is industry.
If you mean the Deckel 4th axis that replaces the regular table, that is a bit different application. If you mean the Deckel 4th axis that is the style of this Walter, I think most users would find the Walter way more desirable.... the Deckel version is too large and cumbersome....esp for a FP2 size machine.
 
Yes the Deckel indexer is probably a bit big for the 2NC table. But of course it can be mounted instead of the table too.

Is the Walter man-liftable? That would be a real plus. But in all the change-over time will be close to the Deckel unit.

BTW I just bought a newish Deckel NC indexer tailstock on Ebay for buy-it-now 99 E. :D:D:D I needed one.
 
Yes the Deckel indexer is probably a bit big for the 2NC table. But of course it can be mounted instead of the table too.
Yes, but that is a PITA to have to remove the table. Beauty of current Walter setup is you can just leave it on the table and still do most regular work without it being in the way. Or loosen two bolts and slide it onto a rolling table without disconnecting any of the electrical or hydraulic stuff.

(FWIW, the electrical is easy enough but the hydraulic connector is a slight pain as the retained pressure makes it hard to get it back on. You have to stick a rod inside the "female" connector to let some oil leak out before you can get it back on the male fitting. So, it's easier to just leave it all connected even if the table is removed)

Re man liftable....easy enough to lift some of it to slide it onto another table*, but to flat out lift the entire unit.... doubtful, unless you are body builder type.

--------------------------------------------------------

*match table heights either by moving Z axis or using adjustable scissor lift type rolling table. And FWIW, this is another aspect where not having the full enclosure is a plus as you can get closer to the T slot table with your roller table, and the cables are not threaded thru an opening in the enclosure, but hanging free.
 
but the hydraulic connector is a slight pain as the retained pressure makes it hard to get it back on. You have to stick a rod inside the "female" connector to let some oil leak out before you can get it back on the male fitting. So, it's easier to just leave it all connected even if the table is removed)

Set the 4th axis to "un-clamp" and the pressure will be off for easy disconnect. At least thats how I remember it from my D4 where I had the same issue.

From D11 machine manual:

- go to manual mode
- push "clamp"
- simultaneously push one of the "rotate table" buttons
- "rotate table" button light goes off
- push on or off hydraulic connector
- reverse for clamping again


This is from the D11 accessory manual, which I have scanned. Let me know if you need it. Its in german.
 
Set the 4th axis to "un-clamp" and the pressure will be off for easy disconnect. At least thats how I remember it from my D4 where I had the same issue.
Good idea. Still, for many users there's really no reason to ever remove it, since the Walter can be moved off the table and set to the side with all cables still attached..... I only removed it to clean the panel.
 
How does the grey hammertone cover and
does it seem to hold up well ?
Can't say if it holds up well as it's not been put to the test. I did sand the pan metal (to rough up the surface a bit) and clean with cleaner, then laquer thinner, and used a two part primer underneath. So the primer will almost certainly "hold up" but will the one part rattlecan Rustoleum Hammertone itself resist chip scratches and coolants ?....dunno.

'Course the original Deckel paint used on the inside of enclosures comes off after a while, so there is no panacea for that other than using stainless steel and no paint.
 
I think we've talked about this before, but isn't it funny what the Deckel brochure art department did with the FP2A electrical cabinet ? The left side is elevated and hanging out in mid air somehow...so strange...LOL


FP2Abrochure1.jpg


OTOH, at least they are showing something. On many of the earlier D1-4 machines the cabinet is not shown at all ! For that matter, many of the manual machine brochures didn't show a cabinet. I wonder how many buyers got their new Deckel in, uncrated it and not having seen one in real life, were thinking what the heck is this big cabinet thing all about ? :confused:
 
OK i will ask....Is that 4th a true interpolating axis that can be run relative to another axis ..ie can it make accurate helical cuts?
Does the control need some different dip switch setting on the NZP board to read correctly if it were fitted to a Dialog4 machine?

Cheers Ross
 
OK i will ask....Is that 4th a true interpolating axis that can be run relative to another axis ..ie can it make accurate helical cuts?
Yes, of course.
Does the control need some different dip switch setting on the NZP board to read correctly if it were fitted to a Dialog4 machine?
Beats me... I guess Walter or FPS or DD would know. Perhaps Deckelfan would know as well but apparently he, Sean, Mortaged and Wiggo have gone into another dimension.
 
Is the Walter man-liftable? That would be a real plus.
This afternoon I lifted it the two inches necessary to place it on a scale... 55 Kg or 121 lbs, with the tool still in place.

So, it's liftable enough for me to remove and place on a table as long as I can remain upright. If I had to bend over any, forget it. Maybe some of you can do better. :fight:
 
BTW I just bought a newish Deckel NC indexer tailstock on Ebay for buy-it-now 99 E. :D:D:D I needed one.

Martin,
From reading some of your old posts I gather you have a couple Deckel NC Indexers.
Would you happen to want to part with one?Even one without a footstock would suffice:D.
 
Ross, not sure about the walter but the nzp dip switches are set different for the deckel
attachments Air indexer is different than nct, nc indexer and universal table.
Also my fp3 d4 1984 upgrade vs my fp4 d4 1986 are set different for the same attachments.
consult the almighty orange book.
Dave
 
Dave:
I was aware of the different settings used on the NZP with Deckel accessories......
Sorry,should have posed the question differently.....
I wanted to know if the earlier machines (D4) would run the Walter using the avaliable switches and if so any idea of what those should be.
Would guess that the switch settings would be different from the "genuine" Deckel version...

D:
Did i understand that the Walter uses the standard Bosch servo drive as used in the early Siemens DC servo machines?

Cheers Ross
 








 
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