Thread: Dialog File Transfer

Hello
Is it possible to upload/download more than one program at a time from Deckel to PC or from PC to Deckel?
Or can programs only be sent/received, "one at a time"?

I've looked through all my manuals and everything I can find on the web, but have not been able to find any mention of this.

It should be simple enough to splice two short text g-code files together and try it. Just be sure to zero out the header and footer character strings where the control normally stores some sort of checksum data. Make sure the programs have unique ID numbers.

Think if you want to load up individual programs with their own numbers then the answer is no....
Think the only way Rich's suggestion would work is if you make two programs in one with one number .....there would have to be a tool change at the start of the second section so you could restart there....
Also the cutter data would present a problem if you are loading that with the program.

Deckel DNC does load lots of small programs one after the other and they will run as stand alone programs if you trick the control.....Must have tool and speed and feed data, along with tool comp definition (G17/G18) in each small program if you wish to run them as separate programs.

Don't really see why one would wish to load up more than one program on a single feed.....If you need to load several programs, just have them ready to go with their unique numbers (not already used in the control) load one, then the next....
If you don't want to walk back and fourth from computer to machine and so on...setup your computer on a cart and wheel it next to the machine...I have my work station with computer about 8 feet from the machine..two steps to initiate a download....


Cheers Ross

Originally Posted by AlfaGTA

Don't really see why one would wish to load up more than one program on a single feed...Cheers Ross

Have 2 machines with about 100 unique programs in each-- all of which were MDI/hand coded on the machine.
Would like to back up the programs to PC, in case I have to reboot the software or in the case of a weird power failure.
It's a lot of work to re-write and enter the programs on a computer (also susceptible to typos!) and a bit of a drag and rather time consuming to have to do them one at a time.

Would be nice to be able to upload/download the programs en masse and be able to run the programs in either machine.

Good tip on putting the computer near the machine, thanks.
Prost!

Steve:
Don't think you can move all the programs off the control to a computer at one go...Not that i can see. As far as i know only an active program is seen by the file transfer part of the control. Seems for what you want to do its
one at a time.......
Hire a high school kid after school for a few bucks to do the transfer...Most kids are more computer literate than we are and they might enjoy the interaction with the machine....(something different)
Write down the exact process setup a file where you want the programs stored and let them go.....Hard for them to delete the programs in the control and once the transfer is started a single file will go through to the computer complete....

Run the Baud rate low to eliminate errors...I never run my D4 faster than 4800. Might be my setup but above that i get lost or fragmented data. Oh and forget parity..its a waste of time as there is as much chance of having an error using parity as without and it means sending more data.

Cheers Ross

Have spent many hours this week trying to get a connection between PC and Deckel without success.

Running Windows XP Pro and have tried Hyperterminal, Tera Term and DNC Proffessional without success on either machine.
Using Com1 serial port on the computer end, with a DB9 connector (this is the only port available on the computer besides USB and printer).
Have tried 2 different cables, current version is 3 wire--pins 2 and 3 crossed over on one end and DB9 pin 5 connected to DB25 pin 7 for ground.
I have a second cable built to the specs Ross posted here on the forum with more conductors--neither Deckel will scroll the program to be sent from mode 14 when that cable is attached.

I have the Com port, Deckel and Terminal all set to the same settings for Baud Rate (4800) Stop Bits (7) Parity (none) and Flow (no)--and have experimented with variations on these, making sure all three are set the same. DNC on the Deckel is "off" and I am using RS232 setting on the Deckel to send/receive. No luck.

Have focused my efforts on receiving from the Deckel to the PC, and have been unable to go the other direction either.

Have tested the cable with an ohmeter, tested Hyperterminal by shorting pins 2 and 3 and seeing keystrokes visible on the Hyperterminal window--all good. Deckel will scroll the program as expected from mode 14 with the current cable, but no communication takes place on the terminal (PC) end.

Any computer wizards out there who can make suggestions for the background settings on the terminal program?
Ie; which send/receive protocol is best (kermit/xmodem/zmodem/b-plus/ymodem?) in/out buffer sizes; handshake timeouts; various timeouts and delays; ASCII format (0/'NULL' ?); etc?

Would appreciate greatly any help.

Steve:
Think your issue is the cable.
DB 9------------- DB 25

Pin2--------------Pin 2

Pin3--------------Pin3

Pin7--------------Pin 4

Pin8--------------Pin5

Pin5--------------Pin7

Tie pins 6, 8 and 20 together on the DP25 end.

The above cable works for me for either the standard transfer or the DNC transfer.
Will admit that i don't think i have ever used it to send to the computer only to the control.

Might have to set the com settings in windows directly in addition to setting it in the communications program.

Go to "Settings" under the "start menu"
Click "control; panel"
Click on "system"
Click on "Device manager"
Open "Ports"
Right click on "Com 1"
open properties
Set the port settings you are going to use...4800, 7,1,none. (4800 baud, 7 data bits, 1 stop bit,no parity )

Cheers Ross

I have that cable--that's the one that chokes up my machine for sending from Dialog to PC, and I do have the port set following the procedure you outlined. At one point in the distant past, I was able to send to the machine with that cable (I believe that 2 and 3 need to be crossed on one end to enable), but not any more.

I use a 3 wire cable to my Dialog 4. (Because there were only 4 conductors in the existing cable to that location.)

9 pin 25 pin
2---------------2
3---------------3
5---------------7

The shield is only grounded at one end.

I use NC NetLite with these settings

4800, 7, 2, N, Software handshaking. No nulls or anything else AFAIK.

I've sent both ways, I get an error at the control after uploading to the PC but the file seems to come through complete. I have not used this extensively yet, but I set it up and wrung it out to be sure it worked.

Hope this helps -

Originally Posted by Colt45

I have that cable--that's the one that chokes up my machine for sending from Dialog to PC, and I do have the port set following the procedure you outlined. At one point in the distant past, I was able to send to the machine with that cable (I believe that 2 and 3 need to be crossed on one end to enable), but not any more.

If you are having trouble sending to the control from the PC using that cable and settings, I would look at the format of the file being sent.
Dialog is very specific about the header that must go with the file.
One missed character or space and you get nothing.

Note: no crossed pins when going form DB9 to DB25..The reason is the function of the two are reversed...IE pin 2 on a DB9 is a receive, where pin 2 on a DB25 is a transmit pin so you don't cross them.(might have the transmit and receive pin numbers wrong....but you get the gist)....Also with RS232 it is not always the same...not all pieces of hardware work the same.Its all in the makers design. Some hardware acts like a computer (DCE), some acts like a reciever (DTE).
The Dialog operates as a DTE i believe.
The pin crossing is only needed if you go from a DB25 to a DB25.

Cheers Ross

If you think that the cable is the root cause of the problem, then a breakout box with jumpers and LEDs is the best way to sort it out in my opinion. Even if the hardware is not the problem, a breakout box will still help you to see when data is flowing.

Update

I'm using the 3 wire cable described by Mud, Rklopp and DeckelDoctor (thanks!), along with 4800, 7, 1 stop bit and even parity and DNC Precision for the terminal program. I have communication from Deckel TO PC, but have'nt been able to go the other way using programs uploaded from the Deckel, and a couple of programs posted here at the forum.

I'm open to any suggestions, also--is it possible to upload/download macros and subroutines?

Hyperterminal should work.

The dialog needs time to swallow the code, so you need handshake, i. e. you need the cable Ross suggested for it to work 100%.
You'll benefit from 2 stopbits, it gives the Dialog more time to accept the code. Also, you'll need to add some line delay, start with 10ms. Find it in Properties>ASCII setup in Hyperterminal.

For a quick test, you can use a line delay of 100ms and a character delay of 10ms with your 3-wire cable. Using a 3 wire cable, remember to disable handshake in Hyperterminal. This will upload very slowly, so use a short program, written on the Dialog and downloaded to the PC.

Regards,

Torleif.

Hi!
You would need to put "!!" (2 exclamations) instead of % and you will be able to send (In or Out) whole memory(just tested on my Dialog11).

good luck
Mariusz

Originally Posted by Colt45

Hello
Is it possible to upload/download more than one program at a time from Deckel to PC or from PC to Deckel?
Or can programs only be sent/received, "one at a time"?

I've looked through all my manuals and everything I can find on the web, but have not been able to find any mention of this.

Mariusz:
He is running a Dialog4....no "F" functions, no command line and no way to input any exclamation point...there is not one on the keyboard unless it is a hidden combination keystroke.

Cheers Ross

Hey guys, very useful advice, around in the forum...
I have been making some experiments with my fp3, a cable and a pc....


I have a 25pin to 9pin cable:



First of all, the pin configuration you describe, looks like this (type, not the combination), or I am doing s@#t?


Thanks in advance....

Please let us in on the connections in the DB9 end and we may be able to help you.

Originally Posted by torleifj

Please let us in on the connections in the DB9 end and we may be able to help you.

The DB9 end is untouched...I guess you talk about the female DB9, shown in the first photo...

I would like to know, if this is the right way to "create" ther desired cable...

Originally Posted by zephyrous

The DB9 end is untouched...I guess you talk about the female DB9, shown in the first photo...

I would like to know, if this is the right way to "create" ther desired cable...

Yes, I'm referring to the 9 pole connector in the photo.

The colors of a RS232 cable are not standardized, so there is no way we can tell how the cable is connected.

I suggest you buy a simple meter and measure if your cable is connected as described by Ross. Alternatively cut off both connectors and build a cable.

At the risk or becoming boring through repetition - use a breakout box. You should be able to diagnose the problem in about 5 minutes and get the required connections for a new working cable. Another 5 minutes to solder up a new cable - done.