http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...E:B:SS:US:1123

Where he says...

I am starting this auction at $8500, which is the last price that an FP-1 sold for on ebay

If true, I'm sure it was a second generation dual dial type that looked very nice......but really I can't even think of one of those that brought $8,500 recently... can you guys ??

Always humorous when some doofus can't distinguish the very important nuances between machines, so he thinks his antique 1960's FP1 is worth just as much as a 1980's Active DRO FP1. I doubt he'll ever get even half of $8,500 for that FP1.

Well 99% of what is offered on the internet is too expensive for me.But that 1% is what we are all looking for, like this one:
http://cgi.ebay.de/MAHO-MH-600-C_W0Q...item27ac6b0dbe

Thats Milacron's ultimate small Maho mill, kinda recall something to that effect in an old thread. You gona make him posting that.

His definition of "small" is a little different than mine then! Yikes! Nice looking machine but that sucker is way to big for my puny area.

Alan

And not sold!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/CNC-DECKEL-FP4...item4149ec1a33

I mentioned that to Milacron, to get his take on it. Surprised a working dialog 11 didn't sell for 3kpounds, or is that price so so? Crappy economy? is Western Europe hurting as bad as we are?

Yup,........ if not, then it sure feels like it.

If it didn't sell for the equivalent Euro to 3K pounds in Germany I'd be shocked, but in the UK nothing surprises me when it comes to industrial grade machine tool prices.

Absolutely. Across the board. I know people from IT and banking to lowly crank turners who are still getting laid off.

Nice thing in Switzerland is if you get laid off you receive 80% of your pay for 2 years, then it drops off a bit. So some guys I know who got put on half-time get 90% of their pay yet only work half time. Sweet.

Unless you work for yourself (like me), then you get zilch.

I'm not sure if this machine even makes it into the 1960s. This is an early lever style, notice that the electrics are inside the machine base with the switch mounted on the machine. I owned one of these once and thought it was a pretty nice compact setup but this machine is really old. Also notice the motor style which is original Siemens two speed but the older motor frame. Seller seems to be completely FOS. No way this is a single phase machine, it looks to have the original two speed motor on it, his estimated weight is off by about a factor of 2, machine weighs more like 1800 lbs, and it would take a miracle to get even half of his asking $8,500. I sold my similar style machine for $750 but that was long before ebay. The vertical head and multi-angle table would likely part for more than he will get for the whole machine. We've seen later model lever style machines offered here for $2800 or so, this machine is worth $2k tops.

Alan

Funny...I just glanced over the copy and didn't even notice the single phase and the weight aspects....so that makes his "last one sold on eBay for $8,500" statement meaningless as well I guess. Yeah, the machine might bring $2,000 without the tilt swivel table and the table might bring as much as 800 bucks...but maybe not even that, now that we know he is so FOS one couldn't begin to trust anything he says about condition. Inch or metric dials would make a difference in price as well.

Being new to the Deckel fraternity I wonder what you should pay or an old FP1.

It is clear to me that it is an excellent bit of gear so worth a bob or two more than a bit of chinese stuff. But value is really defined by whether what you consider is worth paying.

That machine is basically the same as what I just bought.
I got Horizontal and vertical heads, High speed head, slotting head , dividing head, and a full set of collets, and adaptors . Vice to suit the dividing head , rotary table (not deckel) and all original manuals.

OK so I have the cost of converting to 230V but at £2K I am a happy bunny

At $8500 for a basic bit of kit

Reliable Tools had two FP-1 machines last week. The one I followed had the universal table and four or five horizontal arbors with tooling. It even had a single axis DRO. It looked very reasonable considering the source.

Often Reliable gets prices at the high end of the market; this machine sold for $2203.

You should be a happy bunny with all that tooling at that price. It seems that FP1 prices are falling slowly, the Reliable machines just sold are evidence of that. Several years ago I sold a nice lever style FP1 to Rohner Machinery for $2,800. They quickly flipped it for a profit but I don't know at what price. That was un-tooled except for the vertical head. There was a nice lever style in Texas advertised here a while ago at a lower very fair price. I don't see the later dial type FP1s with 40 taper spindles come up for sale very often, they might be holding their value a little better.

In my limited personal experience I have to admit I'm not seeing as much reason to own manual machines with all these trick features. CNC equipment is so cheap, and the software so much more conversational than it used to be that there are a lot of one man and small shops with this capability. These guys are willing to bid what I feel are very fair rates to make even short runs of complicated parts. So I expect the demand and prices of manual FPXs to continue to fall slowly.

Alan

Alan, I think you are right that cheap CNC equipment is making tricked out manual machines look less and less inviting. I sold my FP1 a few years ago due to a shop move and money needs- it had a cabinet full of tooling and accessories. When I get another large manual (yes, and FP1 is large to a watchmaker ) I'll be content with a basic machine. Before that happens there will be a good small CNC VMC in the shop.

The thing I miss the most is the slotting head. But for the once-every-5-year need I have buddies with slotting heads on their machines.

I bought mine (all levers, metric dials) earlier this year with tilting table, dividing head (overarm but no chuck), horizontal overarm and highspeed head and slotting attachment for £1700. It is fabulous.