Thread: FP4NC shift drum pins broken

Originally Posted by Mud

You didn't buy it because it wasn't below $.06/lb.

Ha Ha that's a good one A penny saved is a penny earned.Someones gotta benefit from a deflationary environment, may as well be me.I can't wait till the Euro $hits the bed I'm gonna make the Singer order of the century baby, before they move back to the deutch mark.

Seriously though the reason I shyed away from your mill was the galled Y axis. I saw that and was like nope.

Hmmm, ways are just physical parts, right...Something machinists handle every day...Its them darn little electrons, ohmites and stuff that worry me....


Cheers Ross

Oh don't get me wrong I can scrape,to 40 ppi and beyond if need be.But it makes little sense to buy something wounded if you can buy the same machine in good repair for the same or less money.

I knew better for once(I guess I'm getting wiser from all the beatings)Not to get myself involved in another fruitless project (as I have a tendency to do) that would likely never be completed ,because I have enough such projects all ready.I simply don't have enough time.

I agree though when it comes down to it for me a mechanical problem is a 1000 times better than an electronic one to repair.

Originally Posted by yzfr1pwr

I agree though when it comes down to it for me a mechanical problem is a 1000 times better than an electronic one to repair.

To each his own, but I'd way prefer an electronic problem...especially if I have an identical machine that works to compare boards and such...makes it so much easier.

Yeah swapping boards is easy enough.It's when you locate the bad board and have to go component that I lack experience and equipment in.So if I can't find an exchange I have to rely on someone else to fix.That sucks.Because people are well, mostly unreliable.

Originally Posted by yzfr1pwr

Your only supposed to twist ez outs right below their yield point and then back off, not beyond and then blame the tool.I guess some people can feel it and others can't.

Originally Posted by yzfr1pwr

On a side note, sorry Mud.I'm really glad I didn't buy this machine as it seams to have been worked hard and put away wet.

Mike – You’ve been a real dick to me with your insults and taunts ever since I bought that HGR machine. If you’re still resenting that, or if it’s something else I’ve done or posted, please spit it out and let’s clear the air.



Everyone else – If you’re wondering I'm referring to or what Mike’s (yzft1pwr) attitude is all about, here’s the explanation.

Mike seems to take not getting a machine he wants very seriously. Evidence this thread where he accuses Milacron of ‘corruption’ because of an ad he remembers being placed here on PM - Anybody got a spare PN 2801-2441?



2 years ago I bought a FP3NC with a 3M control from HGR. They’d had it for months, slowly reducing the price from about $3.5K or so. It looked very bad in the photos. It turned out to have very low hours, but the ways were very rusty and it had no table. I wanted the control and motors, etc. for spares. They finally dropped it to about $1300, I called and offered $1000, they let it go for $1100, and I bought it unseen and had it shipped here for about $300.


Once here, I called a few folks who had communicated with me about my first Deckel and offered first chance at the parts I couldn’t use to them, before I listed them here on PM. I was hoping to recover most of my purchase price and have the control left over. I’m not in the machine parts business for profit but I thought taking the risk and investing my time was worth some reward. Mike was one of those people I called. He told me he wanted that machine and was waiting for it to go down to $900, that HGR had not gone that low yet. He did not want the control, but was interested in the rest. I offered to sell him any parts he wanted at a good price or to make me an offer on the whole machine less the control. This is the machine from which Milacron got the Z azis ballscrew for his D11 FP2NC for $200. Mike’s offer for the whole machine was ~$400 and he wanted most of what I hoped to keep included, but he decided he did want the toolmakers’ chip pan. I offered it at $250 because others like DD told me it was worth $400.. Mike said he wanted it, but it took him 6 months to cough up the $250 and he acted like I was demanding his first born for payment. I cleaned it up and welded a few cracks in the edge before I shipped it. Ever since then he’s been sniping at me like you see in this thread without explanation. I had never seen him do this before, and AFAICT Milacron and I are the only two subjects of this, so my conclusion is that the two are related.

First off I only lightly taunt(Razz) people I like so your completely wrong with your assessment. I was actually really close to buying the 3m machine you have,hence my comment. I really am glad I didn't buy it, nothing against you.I guess I don't know you well enough to bust you a bit.

As far as the fp3 stuff? What about it? I've completely forgot it existed until you brought it up.I think your the one holding a grudge on this(why else would you post about something off topic that happened so long ago). What is something worth? What someone is willing to pay for it.You bought a piece of rusted discarded junk and stripped all the perceived high value stuff off.
So what did you expect to get offered for it?The only reason I even considered buying the carcass was because I had to have the pan etc shipped anyhow.Again I'm glad I didn't buy it either because it would just be another broke down useless green hunk a junk in my way.

As far as I recall the ball was in your court, most of the time I was waiting for a reply from you.Besides I'm busy this wasn't exactly high on my priority list.

On edit: What the piss does milacron have to do with any of this?

Oh and the easy out thing was actually directed toward the other posters as I was mildly annoyed by the ignorant dismissal of my suggestion that I know could work since I've done it.While themselves suggesting fanciful solutions.

So in a nutshell I have no ill feelings toward you,but if you wanna make something of it have at it.

Originally Posted by yzfr1pwr

Oh and the easy out thing was actually directed toward the other posters as I was mildly annoyed by the ignorant dismissal of my suggestion that I know could work since I've done it.While themselves suggesting fanciful solutions.

I guess if one that small did exist, you were lucky that the pin was nearly loose already and you could go into a trance and "Feel the Force" to perfection while turning that little thing....

Originally Posted by Milacron

I guess if one that small did exist, you were lucky that the pin was nearly loose already and you could go into a trance and "Feel the Force" to perfection while turning that little thing....

I repair holes with broken bolts taps drills pins etc.on a daily basis I actually receive jobs specifically to do this.I'm waiting for the hate mail and protestors because my shop is an abortion clinic. I repaired a bolt hole in a casting the other day with a broken bolt, ez out, and two broken drill bits.I'll give it to the mechanic,he didn't give up easy.

I really can feel steel stretch(Besides the Iron is litarally in my blood).I've tightened 10s of thousands of bolts etc. in my life and I have broke many things too.I don't doubt that it is beyond the realm of possibility through repetition that I and others have developed neural pathways dedicated to sensing the yield point of steels through touch.I don't even use a torque wrench most of the time even on critical assemblies and I build engines for a living,My failure rate is less than 99.999 percent.

I still break stuff now and again, my Schwartz doesn't work all the time.

Originally Posted by yzfr1pwr

I repair holes with broken bolts taps drills pins etc.on a daily basis I actually receive jobs specifically to do this.I'm waiting for the hate mail and protestors because my shop is an abortion clinic. I repaired a bolt hole in a casting the other day with a broken bolt, ez out, and two broken drill bits.I'll give it to the mechanic,he didn't give up easy.

I really can feel steel stretch.I've tightened 10s of thousands of bolts etc. in my life and I have broke many things too.I don't doubt that it is beyond the realm of possibility through repetition that I and others have developed neural pathways dedicated to sensing the yield point of steels through touch.I don't even use a torque wrench most of the time even on critical assemblies and I build engines for a living,My failure rate is less than 99.999 percent.

I still break stuff now and again, my Schwartz doesn't work all the time.

I hear ya Yoda...but I still don't see it on a pin that small and that tight with an Easy Out that small. I would think even if you employed your sensory super powers and stoped turning within ten thousanths of an inch pound before the EO broke, then you'd still be at square one, since the pin still would not have moved.

OK. Now I have to make a choice whether to accept what you posted at face value or believe my own judgement about what I experience.

If what you just posted is the truth, you don't understand how you are perceived.

Originally Posted by yzfr1pwr

First off I only lightly taunt(Razz) people I like so your completely wrong with your assessment.

Disrespect is not funny, it's just disrespect. What you are doing is not lightly taunting. Telling a professional he doesn't know how to not break a tool is not light taunting. Open disrespect passes for polite conversation between many 20 somethings today. If you behave like a smartass kid, you're going to be treated like a smartass kid. I believe you to be older than that and to know better. Am I right or wrong? I have treated you well and with respect, I deserve as well.

Originally Posted by yzfr1pwr

As far as the fp3 stuff? What about it?

I explained that, reread the post. It correlates with your behavior since. The very clear impression you made on me at the time was of someone that is stingy, greedy, and disrespectful. No disrespect intended today, I'm describing my experience then. If that is not your practice, then again, you don't know how you are perceived. I deal with the retail public every day, I don't have an exceptionally thin skin. That was only one impression and I didn't make any firm decisions about it except that I didn't care to do business with you again. Since then however, your behavior and posts have reinforced that impression in my mind.

Originally Posted by yzfr1pwr

On edit: What the piss does milacron have to do with any of this?

I explained that, reread the post. Your attack on Milacron makes you look greedy, self involved, disrespectful, and unappreciative. That again reinforced my previous impression. Regardless of the facts of your argument, your approach and posts make you look, well, frankly, loony. The fact that machines were involved in both circumstances, and that your negativity was directed at the two of us made it a pattern. If you have dissed other PMers and I missed it, please point it out to me so I can know it's not just us.

Originally Posted by yzfr1pwr

Oh and the easy out thing was actually directed toward the other posters as I was mildly annoyed by the ignorant dismissal of my suggestion that I know could work since I've done it.

I once dug an infected tick out of my leg with a used screwdriver. I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that it works. I will do everything in my power to avoid doing that same thing again, however at that time it was deemed necessary to try. That doesn't warrant my badgering an EMT tech that that's how he/she should do it and getting indignant when they don't want to order a screwdriver shipped in to try it and they look for other ways. I consider trying a spiral ez out on a (very tight, judging by the intact pins BTW) 3mm roll pin with a .069 ID (what's the wall on that, .02"?) akin to using that used screwdriver on a steel splinter. I presume you one you did was larger?

Originally Posted by yzfr1pwr

So in a nutshell I have no ill feelings toward you,but if you wanna make something of it have at it.

Another challenge worthy of a smartass kid.

Obviously I am holding things against you. If I have completely misjudged you, my bad. In that case I completely apologize, and I am open to better days ahead.

Your not supposed to go Rambo on it.Just stick it in and twist a little.No go, drill it.One of my motto's "when in doubt drill it out".
A drill bit is more brittle and thinner than an easy out of similar proportions so if Mud jammed a drill into it and it spun chances are it would have gone with just the ez out.I was trying to give him a fast and easy trick with minimal chip infiltration into his gearbox. But if there was any doubt just drill them out bigger. That obviously worked.

On edit: this is a reply to milacrons post.

Whatever man your grossly exaggerating your perceived miss treatment in a small backwoods business transaction.I thought every thing was good between us.You should have said something at the time.Are you one of those guys that gets jerked when you feel someone has lowballed you?When we first talked you through out a lot lower numbers than when we talked months later after I waited for you to tear into the mill and I recall offering you a check but we agreed to wait till you got the mill apart and prices sorted out.Your numbers kept changing.In retrospect you seemed like the greedy stingy one ( wanting more and more) but that stuff does not bother me I don't care.I'll give my offer if some one takes it ok if not oh well.I make a deal I pay the other party thats it.I'm not a deadbeat,You sir are a blatant Liar!!!

And again since you didn't get it the first time My "indignance" was directed at the other posters discrediting my suggestions.

You probably still have all those deckel giblets and probably will for a long time.Seriously what did you think you had pieces of the lost ark? You paid 1100 bucks for it and stripped the control, servo drive, servos, scales, switches, screws etc..What was left was barely worth to me what I offered(400 and I had to ship it) I figured if I had to scrap it I might barely break even.Your the one coming off as loony.

As I recall you had a simialar gripe with milacron a while ago that he was singling you out and picking on you,I'm starting to notice a pattern.Maybe you have some kind of complex.Were you picked on in school?

I am a smartass kid better than a dumbass kid. I am stingy greedy and self involved, I'm a business man.Wouldn't be in business long if I wasn't.

Since you want to drag this sort of "childish" (name calling and all) crap out on the forum about something so trivial that I wasn't even aware of it,Than we are certainly done doing business. If you want to keep it civil here than I will as well.

It's funny I'm drinking a cup of Salada tea right now and on the bag paper tab they print short little amusing sayings.This one reads:If you can't make light of your troubles,keep them in the dark.

"If you have dissed other PMers and I missed it, please point it out to me so I can know it's not just us."

Mud,

You aren't the only one... I posted some comments in an old thread and had this guy up my ass too. I've just learned to ignore him.

The 1990 FP2A with 4th axis is reborn !

Ok you are right and I am wrong, I shoulda known that without asking. Just keep your cute comments to yourself and you'll be fine.

PS, I really think you should list your supernatural sensitivity to tool and fastener deflection in all of your business advertising, just the fact that you don't need a torque wrench should dramatically impact your sales.

Originally Posted by Mud

just the fact that you don't need a torque wrench should dramatically impact your sales.

He He He, ya that is the guy I want to pay top dollar to do all my high end engine work. I believe it is probably true but I wouldnt use that for advertising.

Charles

Originally Posted by CBlair

He He He, ya that is the guy I want to pay top dollar to do all my high end engine work. I believe it is probably true but I wouldnt use that for advertising.

Charles

I may be a bragard but I have never advertised and probably never will,it is all word of mouth.

I did not say I never use a torque wrench screwdriver etc., actually I probably have about 5000 bucks worth of torque wrenches etc. Ive checked my calibrated elbow many a time against various torque wrenches and it's right on.Now like any fine instument I do have a range I work best between 1/8" to 5/8" fasteners.

Has anyone ever heard of torque to yield? It pretty much makes a torque wrench useless.What about various lubricants that can change a torque reading by as much as 50% while still having the same preload?I'm not a cowboy,I've read studied and performed experiments.

Provided torque values have gotten me in trouble many times, I've snapped quite a few bolts using torque wrenches going off of suplied values. I work on thousands of different engines assemblies etc. with some having unidentifiable grades of fasteners and no way of getting good specifications,what am I going to do not work on something because I don't have a useless book? Not to mention the wasted time trying to track down "gospel" torque specs.

I have bore gages etc.I check for distortion of split capped bores etc.,I don't fly blind.I'll use torque wrenches for confirmed repeatability.

This stuff is not on an Apollo rocket and it's not going to the moon,it's going to the corner mart to get a six pack or take Susy to her soccer match.And in most cases in 5 to 10 years to the scrapyard. There are thousnds of overhead cam heads that I have rebuilt out on the streets right now that I didn't use a torque measuring devise on
Hell when I go to rotate my tires after Ive had my vehicle at a tire shop for tires and they use their torqe sticks I had to use a 3/4" 1200 ft lb. air gun to get half the lug nuts off.

Alright I'm done I've just about beat this dog to death 10 times over.

Some guys think because something is written it must be truth,Books don't make science,science makes books.

Originally Posted by Mud

Ok you are right and I am wrong, I shoulda known that without asking. Just keep your cute comments to yourself and you'll be fine.

PS, I really think you should list your supernatural sensitivity to tool and fastener deflection in all of your business advertising, just the fact that you don't need a torque wrench should dramatically impact your sales.

See, I can take your "cute" comment in stride I suggest you learn to do the same.

I admit, that wasn't nice and I wasn't being cute. I was blatantly ridiculing you.

Didn't bother me none.I don't really care what anyone thinks.Now if I needed help and advise from the internet on how to get broken role pins out of something,that would bother me. I think I'll be alright.

Sixth complete engine rebuild for the month just rolled out the door today.

Geez I'm such a hack, why do these people keep bringing me work.