How unique is the Deckel method of clamping a quill ?

See my post no. 24 here- http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...eaded-steel-parts-together-333102/index2.html

The first drawing, lower right. Did only Deckel do this or is the design pretty common in reality ?

(and FWIW, I didn't notice pins 5 x 24 Din 7 on my quill keyway clamp and frankly not sure why they are showing in this drawing as I can't imagine what purpose they would serve, unless it is simply to affix the spreading keyway "fingers" part to the larger round part to manufacture the mechanism in two sections instead of one)

I only mention this as it seems like the ideal solution to do what this does... and wondering if only Deckel got it right, or perhaps it is pretty common.

I'm amazed no one seems to know the answer to this. Ok, let's change the question...ever seen any manufacturer besides Deckel use an expanding key system to lock the quill keyway sides ?

I noted the quill clamp years back when i first overhauled the spindle on my FP4NC...It.was unique to my experience then and i have not seen any other maker use this system.
Further, pretty sure that the NC machines don't use the 5mm guide pins..

Cheers Ross

AlfaGTA said:

I noted the quill clamp years back when i first overhauled the spindle on my FP4NC...It.was unique to my experience then and i have not seen any other maker use this system.
Further, pretty sure that the NC machines don't use the 5mm guide pins..

Cheers Ross

Click to expand...

Thanks Ross...as someone who used to design tapping machines where various movements had to be locked (for the vertical to horizontal mount mostly) I was just very impressed by this method over the usual method of friction locking the entire quill and wondered if this was just no big deal that other builders have been doing for decades....or unique to Deckel.

Now you've got me so curious about those 5mm pins I may have to dissassemble that part of my FP2 Activ just to see if I can find them !

Never saw anything like that before or since. Only avantage I could imagine for this complicated lock setup is
that, given the typically tight teutonic clearances on the deckel quills, the way the lock operates is, all the force is
taken by the sides of that slot on the quill. No chance for deforming the quill or the housing. I had to dismantle this
one to component pieces because the lock, well, it locked up, and would not release. Lube helped to free it up,
but it needed the home-made pusher tool shown in the bottom of the first photo, to convince the tapered
key to give up its grip on the actual steel lock:

Did Moore universal measuring machines have quill locks? I don't have my Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy book here at home in order to check. The Moore book, Holes Contours and Surfaces mentions a quill lock on a jig borer but gives no description. You can bet Moore went to extremes to prevent the lock from disturbing the quill position laterally, which is the goal of Deckel's method. Aciera locks their F4 and F5 quills by pinching a fat rectangular key let into the side of the quill

rklopp said:

Did Moore universal measuring machines have quill locks? I don't have my Foundations of Mechanical Accuracy book here at home in order to check. The Moore book, Holes Contours and Surfaces mentions a quill lock on a jig borer but gives no description. You can bet Moore went to extremes to prevent the lock from disturbing the quill position laterally, which is the goal of Deckel's method. Aciera locks their F4 and F5 quills by pinching a fat rectangular key let into the side of the quill

Click to expand...

Two other items in the quest for zero deflection, then.. a British inventor and his machinery touting a triangular / diamond-shaped sliding gib/clamp. Hopefully someone else can cite and comment as to pro vs con, it as I don't remember where I read about it.

.. and given that what is considered 'perfect' locking is probably not fully achieved - just pushed to better and better performance, that a round quill may be harder to lock than a polygon, anyway. Lathe tailstocks barrel/ram/quill have been supposed by some sources as being more useful and more easily wear-compensated/adjusted when square, not round.

It would seem that for rounds some version of a 'zero length' collet system could not only preserve centre axis, but on a worn quill, actually enhance it.

Then again just HOW 'zero' length as to longitudinal movement when locked are even the best of such systems, anyway?

Deckel's system may be rather good, but perfect?

Probably 'not quite'.

Even God must have had budget restrictions, else body parts would not cease functioning 'willy nilly'.

I am finding no mention of Moore's universal measuring machine having a quill lock. There must be something holding up the quill, but it's not clear what that is.

rklopp said:

I am finding no mention of Moore's universal measuring machine having a quill lock. There must be something holding up the quill, but it's not clear what that is.

Click to expand...

Chain, steel-tape, or cable counterbalance, and fine-granularity adjustable, perhaps?

Not sure one would WANT to "hard lock" a measuring device, even one a great deal larger than the average Dial Indicator.

To the extent it might be needed at all, then something meant to yield rather than damage the accuracy bits should do.

Very different case from a mill or drill. No power transmission, no cutting-tool stresses, etc.

jim rozen said:

Never saw anything like that before or since. Only avantage I could imagine for this complicated lock setup is
that, given the typically tight teutonic clearances on the deckel quills, the way the lock operates is, all the force is
taken by the sides of that slot on the quill.

Click to expand...

Which seems like the ideal method to me.....an ingenious design IMHO...or maybe I am too easily impressed by little details like this.

I took mine back apart just to see if I could find the 5mm pins showing in the parts drawing and they just are not there, and not needed whatsoever.(could sort of see it if they were spings rather than pins...but even springs not needed really)...the keyway "finger slides" and housing for same are all one piece of material..2202-3261 is an impressive piece of machine work.

The Moore jig bore (and I think the measuring machines also) do not have a quill lock.
Recall reading that all the various locking methods tested all deflected the quill to an unacceptable degree.
The travel stop can be used to lock the quill in position but it's not a lock like on the Deckel or Bridgeport quill.

Find the quill lock on my FP4NC works really well and has very minimal deflection, but believe Moore's standard would be "no deflection at all".

Milacron said:

Which seems like the ideal method to me.....an ingenious design IMHO....

Click to expand...

I remember being pretty impressed with this "detail' the first time i was in there (quill removal).....My thought then, and now is that it was a superior arrangement....
Requires some close tolerance work on both the clamp and its locating bore.

As they say the devil is in the details....

Cheers Ross