What's new
What's new

Deckel Dialog 2 VS Dialog 4

toolnuts

Cast Iron
Joined
Sep 27, 2009
Location
washington
Is the Dialog 2 control as easy to operate manually
as the Dialog 4, or does the Dialog 4 make it easier,
and more versatile?

Paul
 
Dear Paul, are you mad or destitute? Grundig-Dialog 4 is an about 35 years old control. I had to use one last year together with the original manual that wouldn[FONT=&quot]’t match in all points, hatred arousal instantly. Blocks one next to the other sideways, horrible. It reads and triggers the processor, however. This is the 21st century. Recent CAM and CNC only, please. Dialog 2 is still older. Museum![/FONT]
 
Sometimes ya gotta dance with the one that brung ya. Dialog 4 is way better than Dialog 2. Dialog 4 can accommodate MPG handwheel, and I don't think Dialog 2 can. You're stuck with using the handwheels for hand movements, and it is really painful. The Dialog 4 version I have can demo the toolpaths in graphics mode, which helps avoid crashes. It can also do Z moves during compensation on the contour, which in turn enables single-profile threadmilling. Can't do that with D2.
 
Run a Dialog4 control here every day, find it to be an excellent control and very easy to use for prototype and repair work.

Not much difference, if any, to my knowledge between Dialog2 and 4 for manual type work (Modes 1-7). The main differences will be in the available canned cycles, tool compensation, memory, file transfer, no parameters and 2 can not do helical moves- none of which apply to "manual" type work. Like Rklopp said, pretty sure there is no MPG option in Dialog2.

FWIW, the NC Deckels have handwheels and can be operated like a manual mill, but it kind of sucks, the MPG in Mode 4 is far more efficient.
 
Last edited:
Dialog2 and Dialog4 pretty much support the same g-code, but I think there may be some exceptions. For example, in D2 you cannot program a helix, maybe you can in D4 (I've asked this question before but none of the D4 experts has ever replied). D2 also has much smaller program memory than D4, 16k vs. 256k??. D2 does not support the ability to download a program in real time, i.e. that is being executed by the machine while being downloaded.

However, all that being said, D2 will get the job done. You just have to do it a bit differently than D4.
 
in D2 you cannot program a helix, maybe you can in D4 (I've asked this question before but none of the D4 experts has ever replied).
No expert here, but my D4 will program a helix, including threadmilling - G77 internal, G78 external. According to the book a helix is done with a G2 or G3 by adding a Z target at the end of the arc. I haven't needed that myself just yet.
 
No expert here, but my D4 will program a helix, including threadmilling - G77 internal, G78 external. According to the book a helix is done with a G2 or G3 by adding a Z target at the end of the arc. I haven't needed that myself just yet.

I use G9 G2/G3 Z_ for single-profile threadmilling a lot. I think the canned G77/G78 will only do one revolution, so those are really only useful with multi-profile threadmills. You can so any pitch you can dream up using G9 G2/G3 Z_, but are limited to the pitch of the cutter using G77/G78.
 
Not an expert either but later versions of D4 can do helixes in G2/G3 as described by rklopp, do it here all the time.
G77/G78 only does one revolution but the G9 method using repeats can make pretty much any thread and works well.

Only the last version of D4 can "drip feed" - requires special software and hardware.
Not sure even that version actually lets a program execute as you download. AlfaGTA would be the best guy to comment on that.
 
With apologies to Dave, i have answered this question a number of times. Not all D4 controls are equal! There was a early version that couls not do helical milling .
Later the control was improved to give extended features including helical milling.(true 3-D interpolation)

The difference is not software, but rather hardware. Later D4 controls have an extra circuit board and an improved NPP board.
For details see post #49:
First Time CnC, Contour 3 help needed!

As to drip feed, again this has been answered, the short version is that D4 can not do "drip feed" under any circumstances.

D4 can,with the correct software and hardware, do literally unlimited program sized work, but its not like any other control out there.
Here is hoe it works:
You first load the program into some proprietary soft ware on you computer.
Use the software to split the program into bite sized chunks that are file marked in a sequential manner , and hold the small program chunks in a file within the splitting program....
Enable the DMC feature (mode 13) Connect the RS232 cable (proper connection)
Then Switch to mode14 and call the split program from the control.
Computer loads the first several small programs from the splitting program into the control's memory.
You start running the program, same as when operating any stored program.
Machine executes the program...as it finishes each small segment, that segment is deleted from memory, and a new one is called up from the computer....its a sort of fill the bucket, empty the bucket thing.

Works fine and allows literally unlimited file size and unlimited blocks.
The nice thing is that because the memory holds more than one small segment, there is never any delay waiting for the file to transfer from the computer....the memory acts as a buffer.

Have successfully run programs with over 80,000 lines of code with zero issues using this setup. .....

For my money the biggest advantage that D4 has over D2 other than the helical milling, is the overall tool management and cutter comp differences.
D2 can only use cutter comp in the block its called, and all tool offsets are local.
D4 uses a global setup that applies cutter comp to length and diameter any time the tool is called.
D4 can run multiple programs off memory. D2 allows storage of one program only and requires tricks to overcome this limit.
D4 has "paramater" programming, the ability to use variables and math operations within the program (like an Excell statement)
As stated above, D4 can run an MPG , and has graphics , a speed/feed calculator and graphics for canned cycles like drilling and boring etc...
Oh and D4 has the RS232 interface allowing up and down loading of programs.

Cheers Ross
 
In D2 you can do G9 G2/G3, but no ability to change Z, so that is cool. However, the same question applies to a spiral and a conical spiral. All three are rotational paths, but in the first case, Z changes at a constant rate during a rotation, the second, radius changes at a constant rate during a rotation, and the third both Z and radius change at constant rate. D4 does not help with the latter two I suspect.

However, what motivated the question was that in D2, if you try and write a program to generate a helical path by rotating the xz plane (so that the x axis is tangent to the helix), followed by a 1 degree circular move in the (new) xy plane, repeated 360 times, you get an error, the circular move isnot supported, wrong plane... That is what I have asked about, without getting an answer, whether it is fixed in D4. Can you do an axis rotation followed by a circular move in a different plane?
 
In D2 you can do G9 G2/G3, but no ability to change Z, so that is cool. However, the same question applies to a spiral and a conical spiral. All three are rotational paths, but in the first case, Z changes at a constant rate during a rotation, the second, radius changes at a constant rate during a rotation, and the third both Z and radius change at constant rate. D4 does not help with the latter two I suspect.

Not sure you can't do this using parameter programming and variables for the circular and depth moves..never needed to make a spiral or conical spiral so never tried it.
This really is the realm of a 4th axis, which Dialog supports.



However, what motivated the question was that in D2, if you try and write a program to generate a helical path by rotating the xz plane (so that the x axis is tangent to the helix), followed by a 1 degree circular move in the (new) xy plane, repeated 360 times, you get an error, the circular move isnot supported, wrong plane... That is what I have asked about, without getting an answer, whether it is fixed in D4. Can you do an axis rotation followed by a circular move in a different plane?

Not sure exactly what you are trying to do....show me a sketch of the desired tool path you are looking to make.
Cheers Ross
 








 
Back
Top