Thread: Need help starting Deckel FP2NC, identifying faults in electrical cabinet

Originally Posted by pbungum

I'll get back to investigating the other things tomorrow (well, later today really).

Meanwhile, six weeks later.....

Six weeks later and the machine is still broken. I have been working with Don Sentner to get the machine fixed, and working with the dealer and various other parties related to the sale and move of the machine. It has been a real nightmare. Meanwhile, I have machine work to do, lost work I should have been able to do with a working machine, and I am just generally disgusted with both the machine, and the whole process so far (other than working with Don Sentner, who has been helpful). I have a lot of time and additional money into this thing, and I'm not much further along than when I started. The worst part is that I sold a perfectly good functioning CNC mill for this hunk of junk (which was supposedly in great condition).

If I can ever get it running, I'll post an update with the complete (as much as I can anyway) story.

Originally Posted by pbungum

Six weeks later and the machine is still broken.
If I can ever get it running, I'll post an update with the complete (as much as I can anyway) story.

Sorry to hear it, but the mill looked highly suspect to me from the get go. Sentner or I could probably fix it on site but it is very difficult to fix Deckel problems remotely. Unless you have a "sistership"....which makes troubleshooting much easier. If you can't afford to get Sentner over there in person consider buying yet another Dynapath Deckel or consider parting this one out. Easier said than done I know....there are not CNC Deckels floating around all over the place for sale, much less Dynapath ones.

Well, I certainly can't afford ANOTHER Deckel. I can't afford this one - it just sits there and doesn't do any work. In fact, all it does is eat my wallet, and doesn't seem to get any closer to being fixed. I didn't even get one lousy part made on this machine, and I've lost a lot of work because of it. It's been a terrific punch to the gut, but hopefully I can keep plugging away and get it going.

I will say, I'm not impressed with the machine. Some aspects of it are impressive taken individually. On the whole (at least as it sits not functioning), I'm not impressed with the tidiness or layout of the electrical cabinet components, and the machine itself has fiberglass covers that look like they crack when you look at them sideways. The operators console is wholly a let down - I thought that those big buttons would feel nice - they don't. They are cheap and plastic feeling (I'm sure the price tag is high however). Not being able to move the axes when the machine is off due to the brakes on the axes is completely obnoxious. Overall, I was expecting something of much higher overall quality and well-thought design. I suppose I'm somewhat bitter due to the circumstances, but I've tried to see beyond that. The machine iron itself seems well designed and made - it's just everything else that's stuck on the damn thing.

Ok, pet the kitty... pet the kitty... bp coming down again...

You mentioned the operators console, I wonder as it is not a Dialog control if the console was supplied by the control manufacture? Just a thought, doesnt help you out any at the moment, sorry.

Charles

Originally Posted by CBlair

You mentioned the operators console, I wonder as it is not a Dialog control if the console was supplied by the control manufacture?

The round pushbuttons on the lower console seem pretty much the same but the keyboard to the right of the CRT is all Dynapath ...more like a Fadal keyboard...... Dialog keyboard vastly superior IMHO.

But just looking at the pre D11 electrics and electronics makes me cringe a little now that I've got Makino religion. Take a look at the 1995 vintage Makino KE electrical box below for example. Attached to the machine, everything in that box is all that is needed to run the CNC mill. The few relays are tiny things soldered to the one exposed board. Fanuc modules take care of all else... neat as a pin set up.





The Fanuc standard programming side of the control is in "stored" mode in these pictures. For
more convenient use when needed, there is a button to push and it will swivel to the front and lock in place.



If you are curious, the gray box on the left side is a 480/240 to 200 volt transformer. Even the transformer
they managed to mount on the machine. I presume in some countries like Japan that transformer is not
needed. (Actually it wouldn't be here either if you happened to have 208 volt shop power)

Note by the time of this photo I had repaired the "dent" visible in the open box photo where the previous
owner got carried away with metal strapping pressure.

Well Peter,

I wish you would have told the group that in 3-4hrs of phone time we have made progress the machine will start, it is just

not fully functional yet.

Due to Peter having day time job we have been working on the machine in the evenings when we both can have the time

to work together, plus the 3 hr time difference. I have been on the phone till 9 or 10pm east coast time.

The machine was running before it was shipped from the machinery dealer Peter bought it from.

The operators console was damaged before the machine left for its cross country trip to Peter, but due to it hanging

like it is probably damaged the CRT bouncing down the hwy.

The machine was shipped with the electrical cabinet still attached to the machine, very possible some broken wires.

We have encountered bad dynapath power supply. REPAIRED

The Y axis scale was dirty and missing lip seal. REPAIRED

The Crt does not work so we are blind and I am really blind being 3k miles away fro the machine attempting phone

support to get the machine running!

Possible bad dynapath board for axis.

So far we are down to fixing 2 more problems, bad crt, bad axis board, these 2 items are next on the list then hopefully

the machine is ready to make chips.

Regards
DD



DUE TO ECONOMIC HARD TIMES THE LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL WILL BE SWITCHED OFF UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE!!!

Don't sell yourself short DD Don - I think we've talked and emailed a fair bit more than that, and you've helped me understand a lot about the individual parts of the machine. In no way to I mean to indicate that your help hasn't been great - it's worth the price without a doubt. I just need things to keep progressing so I can start bailing out this sinking ship. I thought I was in calm waters going in. Turned out not to be the case!

It's true as well that there has been some understanding gained of what it potentially is going on, and progress is theoretically being made. I still don't have a working machine, or even one with a functioning screen, so I can't see that anything is different in a major way, other than I get a Y-axis that rams itself into it's limit switch, and other axis that slowly work themselves into increasingly inconvenient locations! I know that there is a plan in place for it to get fixed, but that doesn't mean that the machine IS fixed. Until the machine can make parts, it's broken. When I can see things on a screen, I'll start to feel better. When I can have some control over the machine functions, I'll feel better yet. When I can stop spending time talking to transportation companies, dealers, and the like, and get back to work, I'll feel REALLY good.

Originally Posted by pbungum

When I can see things on a screen, I'll start to feel better.

Yeah, going about it blind is frustrating indeed. Somewhere in this forum I believe it was MartinP who explained a method to connect a regular monitor or monochrome security monitor to the pre D11 CRT output... maybe that would work for Dynapath as well ? A separate monitor outside the box would be better than nothing temporarily anyway. My expertise is with color monitors and I know little about monochrome type output.

(on edit) Maybe this thread has some useful info... TFT on Dialog 1-4 EDIT: DONE IT !

Sorry to hear about your problems......Sounds like you are moving in a positive direction.
I used to think the Dynapath controls were rather common with a fair bit of stuff out there to be picked up on the cheap......
Also thought that control was still supported to some degree.....parts, and upgrade for the processor etc.....guess not.
Is the display the same as Dialog, Dynapath or is it a hybrid setup?

Any other Deckel owners close that you might be able to take your display to and see if its the tube or the board?
Cheers Ross

Parts and smarts is supporting old Dynapath controls, with upgrades etc.

Parts & Smarts Inc. Services

Originally Posted by Mud

Parts & Smarts Inc. Services

Funny name...what's next... CNC Stuff 'N Things ?

Dialog controls have nothing in common with dynapath controls as far as connecting a, tv crt, lcd.

As the machine is on the west coast I am trying to put together a solution I can send that will be plug and play

and fit in the confines of the dynapath control.

If the machine was in my shop it would be a no brainer for me to get the solution a lot quicker, also I do not

have machine with Dyanpath control in my shop at the moment to look at.


One guy at part and smarts was around when Dynapath a subsidary Of Hurco when they retrofit the control onto the machine for the US customers.

I also know the guy who wrote the PLC for the Dynapath control who worked for dynapath.

At one time I was going to become a dynapath retrofitter. But Hurco never knows when they are going to leave dynapath as stand alone company

or pull it back under the Hurco umbrella.

Support was bad even for me as I was once a Hurco employee when they had Deckel for short time and created 52 Bastardized Deckels with Max II

controls.

The guy who owns parts and smarts I have know for a long time and Is good guy.

Regards

DD


DUE TO ECONOMIC HARD TIMES THE LIGHT AT THE END OF THE TUNNEL WILL BE SWITCHED OFF UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE!!!