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rebuild a imperial Deckel back to metric

Joined
Jan 15, 2005
Location
The Netherlands
I bought a really nice Deckel FP2 in the UK
It was missing the anglehead but as I have 4 of these laying around and the price was good that was not a dealbreaker

Even when it turned out to be a imperial machine I have no regrets
This one is the one with 400mm X-stroke

It happens to be I have a older Deckel FP2 with 500mm X-stoke for spares

So I intend to rebuild the machine to metric The only thing is I need a 400mm X spindle
So options on that one. I can shorten the 500mm one if possible
I can buy a new spindle or I can have a new spindle made for less than half the cost of a new one

A complete different approuch would be if someone in imperialland has a metric machine and wants to rebuild his machine to imperial ??
Or even sell the machine to imperialland (Shipping would be USD1000 to any port)
But thats a long shot
Any other problems I have not thought of??

DSCN9843.jpg DSCN9862.jpg DSCN9856.jpg

Peter from Holland
 
Unfortunately I am in the same boat. My Deckel FP2 is also imperial. I will be watching with interest if you do proceed with the conversion.
 
Hi Peter, nice buy, that machine looks really clean, from the paint one would say almost unused. Wouldn't it make more sense just to fit it with a decent 3-axis DRO but otherwise leave it imperial, as it is?? I hardly even look at the dials on my machine anymore. Cheers, Bruce
 
Hi Peter, nice buy, that machine looks really clean, from the paint one would say almost unused. Wouldn't it make more sense just to fit it with a decent 3-axis DRO but otherwise leave it imperial, as it is?? I hardly even look at the dials on my machine anymore. Cheers, Bruce

Nobody wants a imperial machine in metricland Even with a DRO you have to lower the price a lott to get it sold

If I am gonna rebuild it I putt on a DRO anyhow. I import Jennix DRO's myself
But I do have that machine for spares And I did have a simular spindel made incl the nut for about €500 once so thats not too bad

peter from holland
 
Hi Peter

The fact it was an inch machine was the main reason I walked away.
As you say an inch machine fitted with a DRO is still an inch machine, which ever way you cut it.

I looked into what would be involved and it’s not just the lead screw shafts and nuts, it’s all the dials, rulers and Y quill feed which need to be changed, a very expensive and time consuming exercise, which for me was the show stopper. However with a spare machine it should be straight forward, if not a little time consuming.

Would it be worth keeping your 500mm X spindle from the other machine and fitting it's longer sub table assembly. This machine came with a 800mm angular table which is better suited to the longer travel.

Good luck with the conversion

Cheers Adrian.
 
All this conversation i find a bit curious....
Why the heck do you not just fit a dual system DRO in 3 axis and be done with it.....
Eliminates the inch/meter problem and gives better overall accuracy and additional functions to boot.....
Guess i see Peter's angle...metric machine might be easier to sell, but from a use standpoint the DRO is just a better solution.
Cheers Ross
 
All this conversation i find a bit curious....
Why the heck do you not just fit a dual system DRO in 3 axis and be done with it.....
Eliminates the inch/meter problem and gives better overall accuracy and additional functions to boot.....
Guess i see Peter's angle...metric machine might be easier to sell, but from a use standpoint the DRO is just a better solution.
Cheers Ross
Adding a 3 axis DRO, esp a proper one, wouldn't be exactly easy as falling off a log either...and not cheap. Plus there may be older FP2 afficianados in Europe who wouldn't want a DRO modernizing their original pristine FP2. Plus they may simply cringe having to look at those silly inch dials even if they never use them.
 
I will put a DRO on it anyhow A milling machine without a DRO is hard to sell
Thats why I startet to import DRO`s myself I just today got in 6
But imperial machines are so rare over here it in fact is a major dealbreaker even with a DRO
I know from a use standpoint with a DRO you never look at the dials again But I am in the market of selling those things Not use them
Also I feel obligated to tell any potentional buyer it is imperial and that makes it a big pricebreaker
And it is really a beautiful machine

Peter from holland
 
I have a Weiler lathe with inch dials and a DRO so I know exactly were Milacron is coming from.
It really bugs me having dials that do not correlate with the DRO.

Yes dials are not as versatile as a DRO system, the later being more accurate taking account of backlash.
However it’s nice to have a mechanical reference and comparison, just for piece of mind when taking that final cut.

IMHO

Cheers Adrian.
 
As mentioned in use with a DRO it really wouldn't make a difference. I would think the main reason for wanting a metric machine (especially in EU) would be ongoing maintenance and parts availability. I gotta believe it's going to be much easier obtain and the user will have more options for purchasing parts for a metric machine. Long long term, metric machines will be much easier to maintain as the number of metric machines produced far out number inch machines.
 
A update

It turned out there was some more involved with the transition

Beside the obvious as the spindels and nuts and dials and dailsbackrings you also have to replace the bleu/black backplate with the feednumbers for the dial for the powerfeeds Thats still obvious
But you also have to replace the dials on the horizontal quillfeed And the 2 gears that are between the handwheek and quill
But, and that i did not figure ouy myself ,the bevelgears for the powerfeeds that are situated behind the Z-axe nut

I made some pics


122927-dsc06584.jpg


Above you see the bevelgears that have to be replaced
Spindels and such have 2 stocknumbers 1 for metric and 1 for inch but not so for these gears Thank you Frans for reminding me

122926-dsc06582.jpg


Above you see the Inch gears assembled and the metric gears in the front Notice one wormgear has 4 leads and the other 5 Also the other gears have different nr of teeth
ThoseI had to buy new as the ones from the spare machines were trashed Probbably the quill got jammed and the gears were trashed trying to loosen it

122925-dsc06579.jpg


Above you see the new metric spindels for X and Y and the old inch spindels
Also the dial backplate for the feeds and the assembly for the quillfeed detailed in the picture above
So all in all you have 18 parts to change
BTW all the 18 Inch parts are for sale

Peter from Holland
 
Peter:
Inch machines only move .1" per turn or the screw....Meter machines move 4mm per turn i believe.
Makes the metric version move to position "faster" than the inch version...making in effect smaller /closer moves easier on the inch version.

You had to change the feed drive for the "X" and "Z" (bevels) to bring the power feed rates down and more in line with the inch machines..
Did you not also have to change the bevel gear that drives the "Y" slide..? Did not see that mentioned in your text.

The interesting thing for me here is how much effort that Deckel put forward to make the Inch version machines convient for the Inch market.
Having the lead screws made to move at the nice round .1" per turn was s design feature aimed it would seem to make the machines easy tor the imperial users.
Could have avoided lots of work and the cost of stocking different gears for the feeds by simply going to .150" per turn on the Imperial versions...which would have been close enough
to not require different drive gears on the power feeds....

Also the thought of how different the slides move per hand wheel turn (inch vrs. Metric) i had never thought much about.....But i think it does make a difference in ease of close positioning....
For me a strong argument to favoring the inch version....

As a side note...been working on my FP3NC and been doing service on the ball screws. Of note here is that the Ball Screws i have worked on (FP-NC's) have all been built with inch dimension grooves and balls.
Not sure but i believe i read someplace that the screws were built for Deckel by an English firm, which they eventually bought.


Cheers Ross
 
Ross

I talked with Frans about it and the only thing I missed were the bevel gears behind the Z-axe spindle
But once we have assembled the Y spindle and handwheel we will check


peter from holland
 
Peter:'
Thanks for the reply....now that i think about it, the inch version has a different pitch screw on the "Y"as compared to the "X" and "Z"...If memory serves it is something like 6 1/4 TPI which means that the ratio of the hand wheel to make .1 " per turn is 1.6 : 1.0....

The inch screw is very close to the same pitch as the metric...so the feed would not be different, but it looks like the hand wheel ratio would be different....If the dials on the metric
machine are marked to give 4mm per turn on the "Y" then the hand wheel ratio would need to be at 1.0 : 1.0 ...My guess is that the micrometer collar on your conversion will not read correctly..(if 4mm per turn)..
My guess is that every turn of the handle on the "Y" will give 2.5mm of movement, not 4.0 like the "X" and "Z".

Be interested to see how this comes out.

Cheers Ross
 
Weird...wonder why they didn't use THK ?

Can't answer that, but i did find the info in a Deckel publication.....Dated 1983..
Its a brochure about the "new" FP-NC's and it goes into some detail on the machines.
There is a page describing the" Ball Screws" showing an artists representation of the balls and the tracks.
Talks about the nuts being split and using preload to eliminate backlash....

States that the screws are made by a Deckel subsidiary " International Ball Screw Ltd. " of Britain....
Now this might be early artistic sales speaking, but seems legit....
Cheers Ross
 
I checked the Y spindle and it is correct No need for new bevel gears there
Also I forgot to mention you also have to swap the 3 rulers
So you have to change a total of 21 parts
 








 
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