Deckel chip enclosures - good, bad, and ugly?

The combination of reading Ross' comments in his thread, and me taking the full enclosure off the FP3NC prompted me to start this thread.

What is the best enclosure for the NC series?

My FP3 enclosure is a little beat up, I think it can all be straightened out with a little expert panel beating. But it looks to me like a fragile affair. Wouldn't last long if a bunch of employees were using the machine. But I don't have employees, so is it worth the effort to straighten out and will it work well once put right? Or is it problematic even then?

Second, the FP2 doesn't have an enclosure, and needs something to contain the mess. Has anyone made a simple enclosure mounted on the top or edge of the table, and if so, how do you deal with the Z ways?

I am machining a lot of stainless steel, it makes little tiny slivers that find their way by way wipers too easily, and do no good there.

Is the armored bellows supplied by Singer any different or better that something made by Goretite? Does this kind of cover solve more problems than it causes.

The Deckel enclosures are well done but I think you have to be careful when you use it. I mean you can't drop the front door because it s made out of thinn sheets (only 1 and 1.5 mm). But this also makes sense to keep the weight of the enclosure down so that the z-axis servo which has to lift it all the time has not that much extra weight.
And the best thing is that it keeps most of the chips in it.

The Z-Axis can be protected by a bellow even if you mount the enclosure.
I think the armored bellows that Singer supplies are good quality and do what they are supposed to do.

I have a complete new unused enclosure for the FP 2A here and it is fore sale. It will also fit your 2NC :-). If you want more details mail me.

Stephan

What is the best enclosure for the NC series?

Click to expand...

I suppose it has to do with what you are doing with the machine.

My preference is the "full" enclosure with 2 fold down sides (front and operator). I think this is the most versatile but it is still a compromise and needs to be kept in alignment and in good working order.

There really isn't another "enclosure". You get into chip/coolant pans from there...of which there is the Z mounted, and the base mounted.

I have seen table mounted "fences" on the rigid tables... basically shop made and about 12" tall. These can be made with a sheet metal bender and weld some tabs for using the T-slots to hold it to the table.
Of course these are mostly open in the rear.

Then you have vise mounted, quill mounted, and floor mounted (curtain)... all shop made solutions.

Ideally I suppose a floor pan (say 10' X 10') with removable curtains that sit just inside the pan edge would be great

Sean

I like the enclosure and like having my nose pressed again it with the chips raining against the window. Could not do that without it.
I wish I could find another FP3NC enclosure. Would not hesitate to restore another one, even if it was rather expensive (sandblasting, painting, windows, small hardware).
The enclosures are fragile and a non-caring operator can ruin one easily. Luckily mine was from a careful owner/operator who never dropped the fold-downs.
If an enclosure seem "wobbely", one should check if all weld points are firm. On mine a small weld was loose. After re-welding it was super stiff again. The later style enclosure with fixed sides seem very limiting to me. I actually thought about modifying mine to make also the left side foldable.


Tip: never clean windows with window cleaner. It contains ammoniak and will dull them. I use dishwasher.

If the Deckel enclosure is useful and will last (with care) I will restore mine for the FP3NC. It needs some body & fender work and a few windows should be replaced, but nothing that can't be done.

Barring finding a Deckel enclosure for the FP2NC (closer to home than Stephan's or the shipping will kill me!) I need to make something for it. I have the tooling plate back on, which would make a nice base for a small table mounted enclosure. In fact a simple plexi one came with the machine. But the back is, as Sean says, open. That showers the machine with chips and oil. Does anyone have a bright idea of a way to enclose the back and still be able to use it? The only simple thing I can think of is to make several different backs of different heights, and install the tallest one for the job. I did that on my last mill and it kind of worked. But maybe there is a better way?

Or maybe someone in California has an FP2NC enclosure they want to get rid of?

I have the 2NC full enclosure. It'd be hard to live without it. I have the 6,300-RPM vertical head, so the enclosure not only keeps the chips and goop under control, it provides some safety protection should a cutter break or some spindle tooling get loose. However, as Ross said, using the horizontal quill with the operator-side rear enclosure in place is a PITA. The previous owners junked the OEM rear enclosures panels and made substitutes out of formed polycarbonate. It's real fast to take on and off. I think my enclosure also has non-OEM door glides and the side panels are held in by screws instead of weatherstrip like OEM. I recently replaced the door panes. Now it's time to do the side panels.

Thinking further of enclosures.

I have "special needs", so the following must be considered in context:

* I don't use coolant, don't have the patience for the mess.

* Most parts I machine are small and fit on the table

* I clean up frequently, I am willing to stop in the middle of a job and vacuum up the chips

With that in mind I wanted something small and easily removable for access and cleaning. I want to keep all the chips on the table, as soon as they spread beyond that the cleaning job increases exponentially. I have the tooling plate that came with the machine, and that seems like a good place to start. So this is what I am thinking:



I can think of no better general attack than the factory version, but want to shrink and simplify it considerably. In the rendering, there is a frame of 1 inch square alu or steel tube attached to the factory features on the keeper plates, and panels of 1/4 inch surface tempered Lexan heat bent to fit (front ones rendered clear, back ones in blue glass so you can see them). The panels in back would hang from the frame on lift-off hinges and pins. The lateral cross piece would be welded to the uprights to give some torsional rigidity to them beyond the spindly little fasteners. The rear panels turn down into the blood groove already in the tooling plate, and are stationary. The front three sides sit in the other grooves and moves with the table. They are "sealed" to the back panels by linear brushes (only shown on the right for clarity). Some angles coming off the uprights provide a track for a way cover bellows. One thing I didn't bother to model is a slot in the front for the Kurt vise to poke through, and blanking plate for when it is gone.

To remove the front three sides you simply lift them off together and set it on the floor - 5 seconds. They would be hinged at the corners so you can fold the thing up on itself and lean it against something for storage. To remove the back panels, just lift off, another 5 seconds. The frame and bellows (and little center panel) would stay there much of the time, but by removing the 6mm fastener on each keeper plate, it would take only a couple of minutes to get it off. I might have to take it off for some operations, especially with the horizontal spindle use.

The idea of having the bellows on the enclosure, rather than the ways, is that there is then no need to try to seal between the enclosure and the bellows which seems nearly impossible. Also with the clear panels I should be able to see when swarf is collecting behind and underneath, and I can go get it. I will lose a little Z travel, but still typically with a vise and tool holder probably not where I will miss it much. It would leak coolant it there was a lot of it flinging around but I don't use coolant. It will leak a few chips over the top and elsewhere, but should contain most everything or at least control where it drops, especially if cleaned often.

I had something similar (but simpler due to the simpler machine geometry) on my CNC Bridgeport, and for the most part it worked pretty well.

OK, shoot. Why won't it work and how could it be better?

Swarf
A couple of points. I think you will find a small enclosure to be a PITA. The vise issue is an indication. I suggest making the enclosure big enough to contain the whole vise and its handle. But then you're pretty much back to the OEM design. (Before VMC users have a heart attack about leaving the handle on the vise while machining, bear in mind that the enclosure moves with the table and that g-forces are minimal on these slow old machines, besides the fact that the Y-axis g-forces are in the ram. Also, think about operations like drilling where you want to reach in with a squirt bottle and shoot. A nice feature of the OEM sliding doors on the front is that you can leave them slightly ajar yet still keep most of the chips confined. You may be surprised at how well you can fire-hose the chips even on small work. I appreciate being able to sweep chips off the edge of the table and into the bottom of the chip pan to be dealt with later.
RKlopp