Value of a Deckel

I am looking at a Deckel, older model. Decent overall condition, comes with indexer, broach/slotting attachment and many other tools and possible attachments. The owner doesn't really know what he has. I don't have any other information and the owner is not able to provide anything else and would prefer someone come take a look at it.

The owner was not sure of what to ask, but said make me an offer. I don't know what to offer on this machine even if I was there to look it over.

Leaning towards it being an FP1. But not positive.

Any suggestions?

If you don't know what the machine is, not sure anyone here can help. Need a photo as a starting place.
Cheers Ross

From the owners explanation and looking up Deckel, it is an FP1 with the "stick shift". Has rotab, vise, spiral attachment, indexer, grinding attachment, slotting, and other items he was not able to describe.

I am trying t o get a pic or two, but this guy is probably older than the machine.

Unless the machine has sat outside and filled up with water, or has suffered other obvious abuse, I suspect that with the accessories it is at least worth a few thousand. But Ross is right, a photo is needed!

The approach I try to take in a situation like this is to do my research ASAP, go look at it with ceiling cash in hand and trailer etc. Look it over and reasses value. Even if they have no idea what they have, make an offer that is fair for both parties. Personally I feel guilty afterward if I get say $1000 market value for $50 but feel great if I get the $1000 value for say $500 to $800. However it is your deal and you may approach it as you wish.

Actually I usually try to take extra cash because often people have other stuff for sale if you look around and listen to their history and stuff. I don't have much money so these sort of transactions are few for me but they are very memorable usually. Part of the reason for the hobby I suppose.

cwilcox said:

The approach I try to take in a situation like this is to do my research ASAP, go look at it with ceiling cash in hand and trailer etc. Look it over and reasses value. Even if they have no idea what they have, make an offer that is fair for both parties. Personally I feel guilty afterward if I get say $1000 market value for $50 but feel great if I get the $1000 value for say $500 to $800. However it is your deal and you may approach it as you wish.

Actually I usually try to take extra cash because often people have other stuff for sale if you look around and listen to their history and stuff. I don't have much money so these sort of transactions are few for me but they are very memorable usually. Part of the reason for the hobby I suppose.

Click to expand...

I do the same. I am not trying to get away with a $50 purchase and want to be fair to guy. But I need to be fair to myself.

I am trying to get a ball park figure for an average running/looking machine with a few or more attachments. I realize it is a problem with limited info, but sometimes that is what it is.

Got a photo

Here is the photo a little brighter and larger.

If the ways are not worn out or badly scored, and if I wuz you, I'd offer $1500 and see what happens. Only you know your upper limit. Mine would probably be $3k (maybe $3.5k if really cherry mechanically), but then I already have plenty of mill toys to play with.

Photo omits one huge feature that is a real kicker on value...Can't tell if that machine has lever shift feed gear box or if its the early change gear setup....
If change gear machine my value if it had the gears would be between $1000,-$2000 with the described accessories.
If its a lever shift feed machine then value with accessories would be higher depending on condition.....Slotting head and dividing head if good could bring $1000 ea...So that
machine if lever shift throughout might easily command $4000- $6000 depending on condition and scope of additional tooling....Of course the value
will be higher if this is a "must have" machine ...to mean it would be your only mill, or its needed for a specific job you are running. If you already have a shop full of good machines, then this one becomes less valuable to you with a subsequent lower offering price...

Cheers Ross

AlfaGTA, thanks for a good run down on average prices. I spoke with the owner, he confirmed it is a stick shift model. also has a universal table. It sounds like he has a lot of tooling and attachments.

So, my next question. Why do I want a Deckel? I have two horizontals and two verticals. I was looking at selling a horizontal, older Brown and Sharpe, anyway. I have a job shop, so is this a practical machine for a job shop.

drom68,

I'm sure someone else here will help you - take it off your hands so it won't bother you anymore.

It's a 1950's machine with stick shift for both spindle speeds and feeds (you can see a bit of the stick with the knob for the coolant punp).

If it's not abused (doesn't look like it) and it has the both the fixed and the tilt/swivel table, index head and slotting head, it'll be a good buy.

It would be better if it took 40 taper tooling, but many live very happily with their 4MT mills.

And lots of tooling and attachments - you'll be in machinist's heaven. But you may be happy enough with your other mills.

If you are, then let someone else here buy it off the seller (not me I already have an FP2 and I've run out of space).

This is a great machine for the serious hobbyist, not really made for hogging metal all day long. The toolmaker's mill.

Cheers
Erik

If you don't have an immediate need but want to 'go Deckel' wait for an FP 2. 40 taper, feeds on all axis', just a little bigger footprint but much more capable.

If I had a job shop, it would be CNC, and an F1 would be a toy in the corner mostly. I would not rely on it to pay the bills. YMMV.

I would get down there quick before he mentions in the pub he has one for sale and it gets out he doesnt know how much he wants and doesnt understand the value of those assesories those alone would cost an awefull lot of money and go fast when offered for sale it could make your other mills redundant if used correctly.Looks in the photos to be in decent condition-someone will snap it up.Past prices can be researched on EBay but it would command a high price with a full set of assesories which is a rare find and would cost an arm and a leg to add to the basic m/c if you tried to add later.In the hands of a good toolmaker/machinist could produce fine intricate work.Think about it Slotting head/indexer/Rotab/vise/spiral attachment/grinding attachment+ a lot of other stuff he cant describe how many times do you get a chance of that lot-How much is it worth have a look at past sales on EBay but I doubt if you will find one sold complete with so much stuff as anyone with any sense would split the assesories up and tooling and offer it in a seperate sale as the price he should be asking would probably scare most off and seperately he would get more.A guess offer him $5,000 if hes happy you certainly should be,I would be as its a sound investment as assesories become rarer and rarer and only increase with value look after the m/c and it will be a good seller in the future

Onecut, thanks. I talked with him several times. He is 88 and has been in the business for some time. He is finally retiring and understands what he has. Hard to talk with him as he is not very descriptive. He finally gave me a price he wants, $6,000. He may budge some, but not much.

drom68 said:

I am looking at a Deckel, older model. Decent overall condition, comes with indexer, broach/slotting attachment and many other tools and possible attachments. The owner doesn't really know what he has.

Any suggestions?

Click to expand...

Well I can't speak for the US prices on accessories but each "extra" like the slotting head, indexer or high speed head etc can be US$1000.00 + over here in England / Europe ... Even if the mill wasn't your desire the value of the tooling is problabily two or three times your overall buying price

... what's more it's just about all interchangeable with the better FP2.

Had this been in England I'd have bought the package just for the extra's

Good luck if you go ahead!

John

Why is it I cannot sell any of those desired accessories like slotting head tilting table for €1000
I normally ask €500 for a slotting head or tilting table
But I end up selling them for €300 €350
I would not pay more as €2500 for it if I bought it for my own use
For stock I do not buy these older FP1 anymore
I agree with the others Buy a FP2

Peter

Peter from Holland said:

Why is it I cannot sell any of those desired accessories like slotting head tilting table for €1000
I normally ask €500 for a slotting head or tilting table
But I end up selling them for €300 €350 Peter

Click to expand...

If you can offer me a good Slotting Head Peter for that price (Euro 350) I think we can do business

Sadly though you'd no tables when I last asked

Maybe you should PM me

John

That price is not out of reason, but not sure i would invest 6K in an FP1 for a job shop.....Have no idea of the sort of work you are getting, but that machine has a limited work
envelope, and limited spindle speed . Working both horizontal and vertical on the same platform is a nice thing and opens the door for extended work and setup possibilities.....
That machine is best suited for work requiring a sensitive touch...while it is capable of making sizeable cuts, its best face is in its nice light "feel" that makes close work a pleasure.
Doing tooling, jigs and fixtures, one-off's and the like this is the realm of the FP1, where slabbing 1/2" off 100 pieces of some 4142 is really not.

Value here for you i think would hinge on the presence of good tool holding tooling...Being the machine uses Morse #4 taper spindles and if stock, has a metric buttress threaded drawbar, it is
important to have a full compliment of collets , milling holders and arbors ....and if you expect to do any horizontal milling appropriate arbors with overarm and outboard bearing would be needed.
All available from Germany, but will increase the running cost of the machine....
In a job shop you need to have a machine that is ready to go and able to run parts without jimmy-jacking about on wanky tool holding or part fixturing....
Also be advised that the tables have metric "T" slots and your current hold downs will not work....so look for clamps and the like in his tooling.

The Morse spindles have their following (not me) and folks here make fine parts using that system....It would not be my first choice. At 6K if you are set on having a Deckel...its not a bad deal, But at
that money you are getting into the range where something newer and more useable for a job shop might be a better call....(have bought CNC Deckels in this price range, but that's another subject)
The accessories are important only if they fill a need for your shop. For hobbyist users, inventors, and model makers accessories become a need...wanting to tool their machines to cover any potential work or project.
The job shop is different. You know your work range and what customers you can expect, and accessories while nice,only become a plus if they help you cover or expand to your customer requirements...and
make a proffit.

Cheers Ross