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Thread: Mori/Ellison gyroscope unlocking

  1. #1
    Flexdmc is offline Plastic
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    Default Mori/Ellison gyroscope unlocking

    Hi there,
    Came across this wonderful forum hoping to solve or at least understand my issue.

    Our company had purchased 8 Mori's (NV5000A's) and recently we've moved the assets to another plant.
    We were told that in order to get the machines operable we needed to have Ellison come out and unlock the machines.

    We've been told by Mori that this is a new requirement of the US government and that all future machine mfg's are moving to this. Have any of you heard of such rubbish and has anyone found a work around.

    We as a company own all of the machines. There is no outstanding balance and we've already had the tech come out to unlock them. Due to some business changes, we want to move the machines around the shop floor to reconfigure our machining cell however as we've done more research, we've found that there is a small board in the electrical panel of the machine that houses a gyroscope so that if the machine is moved/tilted, it will lock out the machine.

    We've made numerous calls to Mori and they refuse to give us the access codes to unlock them or bypass them.

    Machining is not new to us. We have many types in our shop. Makino, Brother, Fadal, Okuma and now the Mori's however these Mori's are the only machines that have this lock out circuit.

  2. #2
    ewlsey is offline Diamond
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    SOP for new machines from Japan. Sorry, make the call and have them come out.

    You can thank Mitutoyo for that one. Some of their equipment just happened to end up in Iran. This is the result.
    dstryr likes this.

  3. #3
    Flexdmc is offline Plastic
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    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post
    SOP for new machines from Japan. Sorry, make the call and have them come out.

    You can thank Mitutoyo for that one. Some of their equipment just happened to end up in Iran. This is the result.
    Thanks for the response. Surely I'm going to down kicking and screaming so have to ask.
    What law or procedure can I look up to get the history of requirements this stems from? I have new machines from Brother/Yamazen that does not have have this unwanted feature.

    I can't be the only unhappy party dealing with this however I've not seen a workaround.
    dstryr likes this.

  4. #4
    dstryr is online now Titanium
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flexdmc View Post
    Thanks for the response. Surely I'm going to down kicking and screaming so have to ask.
    What law or procedure can I look up to get the history of requirements this stems from? I have new machines from Brother/Yamazen that does not have have this unwanted feature.

    I can't be the only unhappy party dealing with this however I've not seen a workaround.
    \

    You can kick and scream but they won't disable it....or else they will get their import license pulled. Only certain machines are required to have it on them.

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    ewlsey is offline Diamond
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    Mitutoyo tied to Iran, North nuclear quests | The Japan Times

    Mitutoyo is the one that got caught. All of the Japanese brands now suffer. I'm not positive, but Mazaks, Okumas, and Moris that are made here in the US may not have this requirement.

    I don't think any other machines have this, just the Jap stuff. I know Haas does not.

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    Flexdmc is offline Plastic
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    So I've been doing more research on this and it seems that this is also tied to Toshiba Machinery violating the law.

    I wonder why only certain machines have them?
    Well thanks for the information so far. Good to know when it comes time to buy new equipment. We're finding that these Mori's are more of a hassle than they're worth.

  7. #7
    dstryr is online now Titanium
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flexdmc View Post
    So I've been doing more research on this and it seems that this is also tied to Toshiba Machinery violating the law.

    I wonder why only certain machines have them?
    Well thanks for the information so far. Good to know when it comes time to buy new equipment. We're finding that these Mori's are more of a hassle than they're worth.
    Flexdmc = flextronics?

  8. #8
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    bythebookbob is offline Aluminum
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    All of our Citizen swiss lathes have the same GPS feature. We have to get a new code every time we move the machine. I believe that only highly sophisticated CNC machines are required to have them. It does stem from Mitutouo CNC CMM machines ending up in the "wrong" hands. Mitutoyo was unable to sell CNC CMM's for some time after the incident. Apparently our country wants to limit it's foes from having access to machines capable of making "certain" parts. I can see where a machine manufacturer might find this useful in cases where a customer was delinquent in payment or where a machine had been stolen.

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    Mr.M is offline Aluminum
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    They are only required on machines that will be exported out of the US. It may have been a machine prepped for export :shrugs:

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    pvsora is online now Aluminum
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    This is now standard for many dealers, Haas doesn't have a Gyro but you have to sign certifications and have the address of installation on file with them. It is because all cnc machine tools are now covered under ITAR

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    Flexdmc is offline Plastic
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    Quote Originally Posted by dstryr View Post
    Flexdmc = flextronics?
    Not Flextronics but good try!
    We do mid to low volume aluminum die casted parts for OEM's in the automotive industry serving many customers.

    I'll be in touch with our compliance department. These machines were never slated for export so not sure about that.

    We're looking at ways to bypass the feature

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    Red James is online now Hot Rolled
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    Why do you want your high precision machines going to offshore nuclear projects when you are done with them?

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    Nick Mueller is offline Titanium
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    Why do you want your high precision machines going to offshore nuclear projects when you are done with them?
    Why can't they simply check for "Out of USA" or "in $BannedCountry now"? They do have GPS, right?

    I think, there is a marked for fake GPS-signal transmitters …
    Nick

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    Flexdmc is offline Plastic
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red James View Post
    Why do you want your high precision machines going to offshore nuclear projects when you are done with them?
    We don't but in our manufacturing environment, we can't afford to wait for a tech when we want to move a machine. We've had to wait for over a month to have an Ellison tech come out just for a code.

    Time is money and if this isn't a peanut butter system on all their machines and just select models, that is just inefficient.
    toolsteel likes this.

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    XD341 is offline Cast Iron
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flexdmc View Post
    We've had to wait for over a month to have an Ellison tech come out just for a code.
    Wow, time to find new service folks. Or start making nasty phone calls, that's nuts. I can't imagine a machine move not having at least a couple days notice....seems like they could respond in a timely manner.

    ETA: I wonder what the legal implications of disabling an export control device would be? Uncle Sugar has gotten quite grumpy about ITAR issues of late......

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    daredo222 is offline Cast Iron
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    Flexdmc,
    Your problem stems from incidents like this:

    "But something happened to change all that. Back in the mid-1980s, the Japanese company Toshiba sold propeller milling machinery to the Soviets through the Norwegian Kongsberg firm; this and other submarine intelligence furnished by the Walker spy ring resulted in significantly quieter Soviet subs by the later part of the decade. As writer Neal Stevens wrote about the Akula-class Soviet boats, "The combined results generated a steep drop in broadband acoustic noise profiles."

    The link below takes you to the article:
    The Taming of the Screw (Page 2)

    Ray

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    HYPERTUNE is online now Aluminum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flexdmc View Post
    We don't but in our manufacturing environment, we can't afford to wait for a tech when we want to move a machine. We've had to wait for over a month to have an Ellison tech come out just for a code.

    Time is money and if this isn't a peanut butter system on all their machines and just select models, that is just inefficient.
    I've moved my Mori a couple of times and had a code same day. Having a machine down for over a month waiting for a code is an absolute joke and I would be contacting Mori direct. I get such good support from Mori here in Australia that I can't even fathom having an issue like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Mueller View Post
    Why can't they simply check for "Out of USA" or "in $BannedCountry now"? They do have GPS, right?

    I think, there is a marked for fake GPS-signal transmitters …
    Nick
    I'm not sure but I think it is a motion sensor, not GPS.

  18. #18
    Mori Guy's Avatar
    Mori Guy is offline Aluminum
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flexdmc View Post
    We don't but in our manufacturing environment, we can't afford to wait for a tech when we want to move a machine. We've had to wait for over a month to have an Ellison tech come out just for a code.
    Sorry you've not had a stellar service experience. PM me with your info, names, etc. and I'll make sure you get better support.

    Regarding the device, Weapons of Mass Destruction. Worst case for a negligent violation would be Dr. Mori himself spending time in the slammer. That along is enough motivation for DMG MORI to follow the regulation very carefully. Other reasons include all of those stated above!

    btw, no need to waste time on bypassing it. It is pretty solid. We have to make it so Iran, N. Korea, etc's best can't bypass it.
    dstryr and Red James like this.

  19. #19
    LarryJ is offline Plastic
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    First off, NV5000's rock; you should love them after running them for a while.
    And I've had nothing but stellar service from Ellison for 15 years. I'd make a nice but firm phone call to a higher-up.

  20. #20
    cash's Avatar
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    Outside the Forum here this thread is getting some recognition.

    High-end CNC machines can't be moved without manufacturers' permission - Boing Boing!

    I caught this from linkedin.

    We have several newer Mori's. I don't have a problem with this but they should be letting the buyer know ahead of time about this. then if you are going to move the machine make a call in advance. Most of the dealers know their customers well and the sales person can just stop by as a courtesy call and unlock the machine.

    Maybe at the same time work on selling the next machine!

    We use Ellison and I have no complaints. When we have had machine issues they are pretty attentive to our needs. Even though with the mori seiki's this is not often. Normally it is due to a crash or a stupid mechanical issue.

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