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Our new 1/2 million dollar DMG Mori DMU65 is a lemon

Meisner

Plastic
Joined
May 1, 2015
Location
Upland, California USA
Guys,

After 90 days of ownership, we are still making machine payments, and the machine still has a mind of it's own. Is it normal for a serviceman to say things like "that's strange" "I haven't seen this before" "your right, it won't stop. well, just hit the emergency stop" I'm forced to go to social media now because every day has been a new adventure with this machine. I have a long laundry list of problems that I would like to make others aware of if they are considering purchasing one of these machines......

Chris
Charles Meisner, Inc.
 
Meisner,

Two things for you to keep in mind since you are new here. First you need to go to your profile and make sure you have included your location. If you look in the upper right corner of everyones posts you will see a location under the join date. You have not got one and it is a requirement.

Second, I am sorry you are unhappy with the machine tool purchase. I am sure your grievances are valid or you wouldnt want to mention them. However be very careful of how you word your posts. This forum isnt here for you or anyone else to try to harm the reputation of any particular manufacturer or person.

You need to keep your complaints on a professional level. Post some of the issues you have had and lets see if anyone else has had to deal with similar ones and perhaps has a solution.

Just dont go cursing and throwing around how much manufacturer xyz sucks kind of posts. They are specifically not allowed.

This is just FYI for you, please share with us your issues we are here to share and learn.

Thanks

Charles
 
Hey Charles ,are you aware that XYZ is a manufacturer of machine tools in the UK (well sort of) ,just be careful saying that they suck:nono:


:D
 
Hi Chris,

I bought a machine by a different manufacturer and saw an old post (1 year) which someone mentioned issues with the same machine. I asked the person to elaborate to compare if the issues were similar to the ones experienced on my machine and to share their experience. Based on the replies I quickly received I do not want to stir the pot, but ask you to please elaborate on your issues. Please keep it on a positive note explaining the issue, corrective action and/or pending corrective actions. It is my opinion this type of information is useful to others looking to buy the same machine. It defines these companies reputations and either shows they care or not.

When I was purchasing my machine I found the post I read about my manufacturer support to be true in the following months. I did have issues on my new machine, and had the opportunity to point out a few defects. They turned out to be manufacturing process issues at the factory and have been addressed by the manufacturer on my machine, back at the factory and on their current inventory.

Vince
 
Meisner,

Two things for you to keep in mind since you are new here. First you need to go to your profile and make sure you have included your location. If you look in the upper right corner of everyones posts you will see a location under the join date. You have not got one and it is a requirement.

Second, I am sorry you are unhappy with the machine tool purchase. I am sure your grievances are valid or you wouldnt want to mention them. However be very careful of how you word your posts. This forum isnt here for you or anyone else to try to harm the reputation of any particular manufacturer or person.

You need to keep your complaints on a professional level. Post some of the issues you have had and lets see if anyone else has had to deal with similar ones and perhaps has a solution.

Just dont go cursing and throwing around how much manufacturer xyz sucks kind of posts. They are specifically not allowed.


This is just FYI for you, please share with us your issues we are here to share and learn.

Thanks

Charles

Tell that to all the people bashing Haas almost every time a Haas "problem" comes up.

Now to be relevant to the OP, I have seen some odd issues with our new machine (not a DMG) and I don't think it is that uncommon for a tech to not know what a problem is. They have to learn the ins and outs of their machines (and all the different models and options) just like we as machinist learn how different tools cut different materials and such.
 
OP - DMG sells many configs, and the DMU 65 seems to be available in every possible configuration. So which controller did you order, are you using celos, does if the have the turning option, etc. etc., is important to trying to understand what is going on.
 
Our machine has the Siemens controler, we do not have the celos system, it does not have the turning option, it is equipped with the inspection probe. it's a basic 5 axis configuration. Has anyone got an idea why when we turn on the machine, reference the axis's and go to probe the part and the probe moves in the opposite direction of the command? a y+ probe command becomes a y- probe command? we shut the machine down and restart it and the probe goes in the correct direction? I know that it sounds like a mirror image is turned on, but it isn't.
 
Our machine has the Siemens controler, we do not have the celos system, it does not have the turning option, it is equipped with the inspection probe. it's a basic 5 axis configuration. Has anyone got an idea why when we turn on the machine, reference the axis's and go to probe the part and the probe moves in the opposite direction of the command? a y+ probe command becomes a y- probe command? we shut the machine down and restart it and the probe goes in the correct direction? I know that it sounds like a mirror image is turned on, but it isn't.

Have you ever had the mirror image on at any time? I know on our robodrill the mirror image was a bit wonky. I don't remember exactly what it was, but we had to bring it back to zero (I think the work offset zero) and then turn the mirror image off or it would go the wrong direction, like it was still on if we tried turning it off anywhere but the zero point.
 
No, we have never turned on the mirror image function. We have used the cycle800 function on the mill. This happens randomly, at start up.
The day before, the cycle800 was off and we were using the machine as a simple 3 axis mill. We come in the next day, and check the part and the probe runs backward. The machine was equipped with the DMG PP60/HSK63 Kit Also reads on the box A-4038-7103-09. We used the probe measuring options on the Siemens controller, and no we do not use the Shopmill option.
 
Guys,

After 90 days of ownership, we are still making machine payments, and the machine still has a mind of it's own. Is it normal for a serviceman to say things like "that's strange" "I haven't seen this before" "your right, it won't stop. well, just hit the emergency stop" I'm forced to go to social media now because every day has been a new adventure with this machine. I have a long laundry list of problems that I would like to make others aware of if they are considering purchasing one of these machines......

Chris
Charles Meisner, Inc.

Yep, that's my DMG experience too and I have a simple one :mad5: Make them fly Marco out from Germany and fix it. Two years on with our machine I can speculate with 99% accuracy that your problems are not on the Siemens side but squarely on the half-baked DMG integration side. Have you had Errol out to work on it yet...pretty sure he is your Ellison apps guy down there?
 
No, we have never turned on the mirror image function. We have used the cycle800 function on the mill. This happens randomly, at start up.
The day before, the cycle800 was off and we were using the machine as a simple 3 axis mill. We come in the next day, and check the part and the probe runs backward. The machine was equipped with the DMG PP60/HSK63 Kit Also reads on the box A-4038-7103-09. We used the probe measuring options on the Siemens controller, and no we do not use the Shopmill option.

I do not have the answer to your question. But what i do know is that the 5 axis machines I have dealt with usually have some sort of a "3d cycle" (thinking cycle 19 on a Hermle) which has weird effects on what direction your axis are. Maybe something to look at.
 
what toolsteel said - and some vaguely related context - turns out that even heidenhain's have bugs, as in, axes move the wrong way with cycle 19, but not with the plane spatial rotate cycle, and the error only occurs when one axis is tilted in a certain range. and one day I will actually install the software update and see if it fixes that.

What OP describes sure sounds like A and C aren't at zero (or the machine thinks they're not), like some kind of coordinate rotation is turned (a Heidenhain has like 3 different kinds, don't know about Siemans) etc.

On the other hand, going exactly the wrong way also sounds like an uninitialized variable => could be fixed up software upgrade for the controller or PLC.
 
We already had Errol out here, we have had apps, and mechanical onsite on and off for a couple of weeks. One of the other qwerky things it does, it doesn't seem to know what the tool lengths are from day to day. We check the tool length and it reports as much as .007 longer or shorter from the previous calibration. Thursday, we had reps from Ellison & DMG witness a laser calibration on the machine. We checked the length in the morning, 3 hours later, we went to re-check it. The machine gave us an error message something like data out of range and it wouldn't calibrate the tool, we reset it, tried again, it still didn't want to run, reset it again, without changing anything, it calibrated the tool .002 different than it was. They have checked the laser and assure us it is working perfectly. We have even has the full computer system software dumped and reinstalled just in case it was corrupted.
 
I would check the squareness of the spindle regarding the tool length. Probably not going back to square. Use a clock to check the spindle nose angle after canceling CYCLE800
 
And my ellison rep wondered why I didnt want a DMG in my shop... Sorry to hear about your problems man. I sent this thread off to my buddy who is a Chicago apps for DMG/Mori to try and get the ball rolling faster.

Have you tried using a CYCLE800() at the beginning of your program that is probing?

As far as your laser setting I could get a test bar (Not sure if yours came with one) and have them cycle that thing over 8 hours and record the answers to a macro. Sounds like your beam isnt aligned or something is loose.
 
I have already had the VP, of National Service and Key Account Support from Chicago in our facility a few weeks ago. He was the one that decided there must be something corrupt in the system or parameters and ordered it to be reloaded. Our laser unit has been checked and found out of parallel with the table by a few thousandths and has been re-adjusted. As far as checking squareness, We can try that on Monday before the cycle800, and after the cycle800 and see if it goes back to square.
 
We already had Errol out here, we have had apps, and mechanical onsite on and off for a couple of weeks.

Then you want Marco from DMG on your floor to look at it. He's the only guy I've dealt with so far that can get any answers out of the home office.

One of the other qwerky things it does, it doesn't seem to know what the tool lengths are from day to day. We check the tool length and it reports as much as .007 longer or shorter from the previous calibration. Thursday, we had reps from Ellison & DMG witness a laser calibration on the machine. We checked the length in the morning, 3 hours later, we went to re-check it. The machine gave us an error message something like data out of range and it wouldn't calibrate the tool, we reset it, tried again, it still didn't want to run, reset it again, without changing anything, it calibrated the tool .002 different than it was. They have checked the laser and assure us it is working perfectly. We have even has the full computer system software dumped and reinstalled just in case it was corrupted.

Have them check the thermal comp sensors/algorithm on the spindle. That's what is screwed up on my machine. The 0.007" error is big but the 0.002" is right in the ballpark for what I see. We chased our tail for a year thinking it was the laser to the point I had the laser pulled off and replaced by a Blum Z-Pico contact tool setter. Then it became disturbingly obvious it was the mill not repeating. When we run turbine spindles (no temperature change in the spindle) it repeats to 0.0001" all day long. Leave the mill idle for 15min with the door open and jump back into a cycle with 24K spindle speed and all hell breaks loose on the tool length.
 
Wow.. we are just starting to look at 5 axis machines and this one was at the top of the list. This thread doesnt give me much hope... is it because this machine is from the DMG side of the house and not the Mori? If so, which machines are the ones to replace this?
 
Wow.. we are just starting to look at 5 axis machines and this one was at the top of the list. This thread doesnt give me much hope... is it because this machine is from the DMG side of the house and not the Mori? If so, which machines are the ones to replace this?

DMG has many thousands of 5 axis machines all over the world. If they sucked they wouldnt still be selling them. However, they are very complicated machines and the more automation you add to them the more complicated the software gets. It is too bad that the OP hasnt had better luck with his problems. You would think that they would have a more comprehensive troubleshooting method for software or machine parameter issues. However, not every technician is going to be equally competent in every area of the machine tool.

I am confident they will get it sorted out, it is just a shame that it has taken this long. And if you are looking at 5 axis machines do your homework and find out how much the service techs available in your area really know.

Charles
 








 
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