Thread: Deckel Maho MH 600 C

If I bought that Maho, I'd be thinking hard about designing a product that needed that style of table to make the parts for the product !

I would try to find a 4th axis rotary table (sometimes they pop-up at German Ebay) and make it a more use-full machine. Just forget the 5th axis.

I think this is one of the first attempts to make a full-5axis machine. IMHO just not the right concept.I also doubt the 532 has the abiltiy to calculate with a cinematic model. (no G7 )

Originally Posted by Kees

I think this is one of the first attempts to make a full-5axis machine. IMHO just not the right concept.I also doubt the 532 has the abiltiy to calculate with a cinematic model.

According to my Maho brochures, the vertical 5 axis table (as seen on below MH1000S) was available just as early as this horizontal one. Vertical version quite complex in comparison however so probably insanely expensive. FWIW, the vertical 5 axis table was officially known as the "NC Rotary/Tilt Table" whereas the horizontal version on the MH600C is officially the "2-Axis NC Table".

Interestingly, one would think as complex as the NC Rotary/Table was, that there had to be only one size and version of it....however, according to the literature, the three machines that could accept that table (700S, 800C and 1000C) each had different size clamping areas and load capacities !

Also interesting is that the horizontal 5 axis table (or 2-Axis NC Table they called it) was only available on the MH600C ! This was the case in 1987 and 1991 literature. (the vertical 5 axis table is shown in the 1987 brochure as well...but available only on the 800 and 1000C at that time..."S" machines came later)

The standard 4th axis table was referred to simply as the "NC Rotary Table". That one was available on all Maho CNC machines and came in various sizes depending on the size of the machine.



This monster Maho was in the toolroom of R.J. Reynolds Tobacco in Winston Salem, NC believe it or not. I did buy a Maho at that auction, but not this one ! (MH500e2...now in Australia !)

I am leaning towards Kee's idea but I can't imagine it would be that simple as to pick up the first 4th axis table that pops on eBay. I would think that making sure the geared bits are correct as well as the rotary electrical connections etc etc. I know of Dr Maho here in the States but are there any known MAHO specialists in Europe that any in the community worked with to good result?

Originally Posted by MCSF

I am leaning towards Kee's idea but I can't imagine it would be that simple as to pick up the first 4th axis table that pops on eBay. I would think that making sure the geared bits are correct as well as the rotary electrical connections etc etc. I know of Dr Maho here in the States but are there any known MAHO specialists in Europe that any in the community worked with to good result?

FWIW, sold at least a year ago, but still sitting in my warehouse is a 1987 Maho MH600e with 4th axis table. As the machine has over 100,000 hours on the meter I sold it as a parts machine but the motor on the 4th axis table died many years ago and previous owners *pinned* the table top to the lower casting so it wouldn't move. So the table itself may not have many hours on it. And the motor it needs is identical to the X and Z servos, so one of those could be used......or for about $1,500 the original servo could be repaired. Table top has since been unpinned and moves great by hand anyway, encoder works.

I mention this only because the guy should have picked this machine up many months ago, so he has either died and changed his mind about messing with it and might sell it. The downside for the 600C is the table is the older "barrel" style where both the table top and lower casting are round, so it would not be as attractive as the later rectangular 4th axis tables. Also since it was meant to interface Indramat drive and Heidenhain encoder with 432 control could be some issues with interface to 532 control. But if you get desperate.... something to think about as a possibility.

Originally Posted by Milacron

Also interesting is that the horizontal 5 axis table (or 2-Axis NC Table they called it) was only available on the MH600C !

I think it was developed for this machine:


1993 Maho produkts:


So many models with almost the same range, I wonder why. Deckel didn't had so much models I think. Probaly there were only a few machine-frames used for various models.
No mention of the NC rotary/swift table, but it was available. EDIT: was it called here the NC-Schwenkrundtisch?And what is the C-axe?

Originally Posted by Kees

I think it was developed for this machine:
And what is the C-axe?

Not that machine in particular as the 2 axis table is featured in my 1987 brochure. (see link below for pix of one in real life, complete with idiotic paint job and slathered on silicone sealant)

The C axis was optional, motorized and programmable head swivel ! By that I mean the vertical head would swivel left and right as needed in a program, in addition to the fixed position swiveling for vertical to horizontal modes.


https://picasaweb.google.com/pulsenpal/MAHO600C#

I don't understand what you mean. You mean the vertikal spindle could swivel just like in a modern DMU-T-model? I never seen that on the oldies. Pics??

Originally Posted by Kees

I don't understand what you mean. You mean the vertikal spindle could swivel just like in a modern DMU-T-model? I never seen that on the oldies. Pics??

Here ya go. I've never actually seen a Maho with this option....but then I've not been around many of the newer larger Mahos either. I presume the 1991 MH800C I used to own could have been equipped with this option...but wasn't...probably not much use without the 4th axis table anyway.

Wow, thanks!
Maho was ahead of it's time with all these functions. In my 1993 folder is a picture of a swivel head, which concept is still used in the P-models.

We made our site visit to inspect the MH600C and were very pleased. The long and short is that we are going to acquire the machine. Luckily , for us, the machine has actually been kept INSIDE since it was moved from the machine shop area. The picture they took of it for the web was outside and then off it went to the shed! That is a rarity in the world of gov't excess. That being said it is an out building and not a clean room so the machine is quite dusty. It was professionally moved and all manuals, discs, schematics and the proper transformer are all there! The meters have the total on time of 15,276 and the total spindle time of 4300 hours. The electrical cabinet is squared away. We talked with the techs who got her back up and running after its move from Stanford University. All systems go except for the spindle and a sticky tool changer. Then the project was scuttled. They figure it was a parameter or interlock or a gremlin from the Kremlin involved. However before the move all was OK.

Here are some pics - the shed had a garage door that we had to stoop under so front and side pics were not really an option. Ooops - I guess the upload does not take large shots. The best one of the electrical cab is too big!

We are stoked!

BTW - confirmed 1994 machine bought as a demo at IMTS.

You got yourself a very good machine.Should be able to get it going again.

As a sidenote: Just found a machine with a C-axis:


It is a Maho 1600S, what a beast!

My MH1200C has the 5th axis rotating head. Many of you have seen the pictures, but since it was brought up, for those that haven't....



Click here for more pictures: Maho MH1200C

MCSF, glad to hear about the machine. Looking forward to maybe seeing it some day.

Regards,
Mike

@ Mike: I never realised your machine has this ability.That is why the NC dividinghead is not permanent attached: the control has only 6 axis input. ( X-Y - Z - C - B - spindle) Could you make a video of the B-axis in action, in combination with the head swivel?

PS: I don't know if you got my last email, but I got my dividing head running now.I needed a code to release the axe in the machineconstants.

Originally Posted by MCSF

We made our site visit to inspect the MH600C and were very pleased. The long and short is that we are going to acquire the machine. Luckily , for us, the machine has actually been kept INSIDE since it was moved from the machine shop area. The picture they took of it for the web was outside and then off it went to the shed! That is a rarity in the world of gov't excess. That being said it is an out building and not a clean room so the machine is quite dusty. It was professionally moved and all manuals, discs, schematics and the proper transformer are all there! The meters have the total on time of 15,276 and the total spindle time of 4300 hours. The electrical cabinet is squared away. We talked with the techs who got her back up and running after its move from Stanford University. All systems go except for the spindle and a sticky tool changer. Then the project was scuttled. They figure it was a parameter or interlock or a gremlin from the Kremlin involved. However before the move all was OK.

Here are some pics - the shed had a garage door that we had to stoop under so front and side pics were not really an option. Ooops - I guess the upload does not take large shots. The best one of the electrical cab is too big!

We are stoked!

Congrats....so you can use the table as is for much of your work ? Thank goodness for Ross's old photos....what you posted is about the most boring group of photos of a machine I've ever seen

Thanks all - my pics were quite pathetic. However the shed is not much bigger than the machine itself so you can't get much more than a closeup of anything. I'll do better once I get her over to my place.

I do not plan on using that table for much. The intent is to do an orderly transition to a standard 4th axis table. We do plan on accurately documenting the removal and any and all changes to the system in the even that we need to revert.

Originally Posted by Lohmeyer

My MH1200C has the 5th axis rotating head. Many of you have seen the pictures, but since it was brought up, for those that haven't....



Click here for more pictures: Maho MH1200C

MCSF, glad to hear about the machine. Looking forward to maybe seeing it some day.

Regards,
Mike

How is your machine working for you? Have you gotten it to make the parts you bought it for yet? Last I remember hearing you were modifying tool holders to work. You got quite a deal on that machine and I know some of us gave you a (soft) hard time as we knew it would take some work to get it going. I sure hope it is meeting your expectations.

Charles

Originally Posted by MCSF

That being said it is an out building and not a clean room so the machine is quite dusty. It was professionally moved and all manuals, discs, schematics and the proper transformer are all there! The meters have the total on time of 15,276 and the total spindle time of 4300 hours. The electrical cabinet is squared away. We talked with the techs who got her back up and running after its move from Stanford University. All systems go except for the spindle and a sticky tool changer. Then the project was scuttled. We are stoked!

Pretty low hours but at least not so low that we get to be slightly annoyed at the original purchase being a complete boondogle. I mean, at least they did use it some anyway. But each part they made on it would have to be some seriously expensive parts to justify what they paid the the machine. Funny a machine that expensive and rare once at Stanford ending up in a shed ! Wonder if any Silicon Valley Gazillionaires used the machine back when they went to university ?

MCSF, is Gary Martin from IMS going to help do the change over of the table, or will it be an in house job? I'm still wondering if the current 5 axis setup might offer more room than it looks. I suppose it depends on the fixture/vise. Still seems sad to give up 5 axis and go through all that work to down grade it. And wow, low hours!

I suppose this is verging on a thread hijack, but....

Kees, glad to hear you got your dividing head working! I'll post some videos of my machine in the next month. I also plan to hook up the dividing head and try 5 axis in the A-C direction as well.

Charles, I had my MH1200 running at a temporary location but didn't do much with it because it was isolated from the rest of my stuff and not much room to work on it. I moved to a new location with all my tools, etc. in one place now. Now I have to finish electrical panel upgrades before I can run the Maho again. Getting it going wasn't so bad, but I need to finish the canned cycles on my post processor so I can do some real work on it.