Thread: maho mc600 and mc5hs

machine should be delivered monday. this should be fun.

what extras would you be missing with a linuxcnc retrofit? (I don't know my mahos )

random videos of mahos converted to linuxcnc
Milling a Hirth-coupling w. EMC2 on a MAHO HM700C mill and a Haas TL2 lathe - YouTube
showing the gear shift
MAHO MH 700 C retrofit w. EMC / p#2 - YouTube

EMC2 MAHO - YouTube

if you go on linuxcnc.org message board - I think there are a few threads on maho conversions...

I think it would be pretty strait forward with linuxcnc and some elbow grease... (rigid tapping is possible right out of the box with linuxcnc (need a spindle encoder/resolver)

sam

Originally Posted by ihavenofish

so... what exactly is hard? *runs* the way i see it, this particular maho is VERY complex, and i could definitely see it not being easy to retrofit. the original intent was one of the simpler mh600 types. this ones got so many extra bits that mach3 or emc would miss half the features. BUT, i dont see why it would be so hard to get the basic 4 axis plus spindle going on a new control. the atc would need some clever thinking, its got a carousel and some sort of little robot mounted above the spindle on the ram. then the pallets.. ugh. haha.

thats why im a bit excited that they say its actually running fine. the control is 432-10 v603 which seems to be "new" enough to actually be very useful from everything ive read.

the reason i said i could sell the philips bits and recover much of the cost of the machine is cause the machine doest cost much as all. delivery might cost more than the machine itself :P but hopefully now, we wont need to do that at least for a while.

so, dont be a twit, and just say what you mean.

BTW - I converted a machine with a 16 speed gearbox shifted hydraulicly, pallet changer, table indexer, 60 tool chain and changer with mechanically barcoded tools (and a bunch more) I would do it again. It gave the old iron a second more flexible/powerful life. Everything was done within linuxcnc's hal and ladder logic. (with inexpensive mesa interface hardware)

sam

Boy you are a glutton for punishment, looks to be in many parts with parts missing. Appears to have been apart for a long time... if you manage to get this thing together and working I can assure you of two things. One you will likely have one of few if not the only one in the country that is in working condition. And two you will be the worlds expert on this model machine.

I am afraid that the 10 foot pole marks all over this thing would keep me away but I wish you good luck and keep us informed of your progress. I do enjoy your enthusiasm.

Also let us know when you want to part it out, there might be one person who could use something off of that machine, maybe.

Charles

Originally Posted by CBlair

Boy you are a glutton for punishment, looks to be in many parts with parts missing. Appears to have been apart for a long time... if you manage to get this thing together and working I can assure you of two things. One you will likely have one of few if not the only one in the country that is in working condition. And two you will be the worlds expert on this model machine.

LOL.. The Horror.AVI - YouTube

Originally Posted by CBlair

Boy you are a glutton for punishment, looks to be in many parts with parts missing. Appears to have been apart for a long time... if you manage to get this thing together and working I can assure you of two things. One you will likely have one of few if not the only one in the country that is in working condition. And two you will be the worlds expert on this model machine.

I am afraid that the 10 foot pole marks all over this thing would keep me away but I wish you good luck and keep us informed of your progress. I do enjoy your enthusiasm.

Also let us know when you want to part it out, there might be one person who could use something off of that machine, maybe.

Charles

as it happens, you are completely wrong.
i went over today to arrange delivery, and the fellow who was responsible for setting up the machine originally was there.... as was all the missing parts. all the covers, pallets, brand new manual from DMG canada, even a tool holders and labeled control panel wiring. theres also a coolant tank now with it. all the hydraulics were fully inspected by dmg a few years ago, and the machine was powered on and tested.

there is one known thing wrong with the machine. the Z axis wont home. they believe this is because the scale is dirty.

so i think the 10 foot pole is now a 2 foot pole :P haha. it may not be too bad to get this going at all.

you have to remember this machine was purchased for low 4 digit money, less than a chinese hobby mill, so im willing to put up with a reasonable amount of work to get it running.

I hope the best for you and good luck with it, keep us informed of your progress.

Charles

Originally Posted by CBlair

I hope the best for you and good luck with it, keep us informed of your progress.

Charles

thanks. ill keep this updated as it goes. it will be 3-4 weeks before its powered up as i dont have a transformet yet and am busy with my "real" job. so during that time im going to carefully clean it, reconnect everything, and see if i can clean the scale if its something a mere mortal could manage.

i do agree though that this may be one of the only running mc5hs's in canada. theres all of 3-4 listed online in europe for sale, and so little info in general.

the coolant tank included is small. was quite happy, the ones in he pics ive found are massive 150 gallon units. this ones more like 20-30 gallons. fits better in the shop and easier to maintain.

so the machine is in the shop. took quite a while. opened up all the cabinets to look around. noticed something odd. some sort od machine vision system. theres a camera and flash/light on top of the tool changer aimed at the table areal. theres also a cable sensor all around the cabinet. need to figure out what that did and if its something useful to me.

anyhow, ill hve lost of pics of the adventure tomorrow.

does anyone know what a schmersal om256 is? their website has no info, google has no info. it looks like a camera with 2 lights. schmersal makes process safety gear (also make the rope sensor in my cabin) so i assume this has something to do with detectic pallets, or maybe tool breakage. anyone know what this is?

random picture dump
Index of /maho/images/random

i pulled the cpu card out, it seems to me to be a 432/10 v500 if im reading right. not v603. are any critical features lost with the 500? does this version do simultaneous 4 axis? DNC? drip feed? etc. the boards look "new". definitely upgraded later in its working life.

ive also found ram chips to upgrade it from 96 to 384k memory, which should help with bigger programs.

I would assume camera is tool breakage sensor(?)

I don't think the v500 had all the bugs worked out of the 'drip feed'.

Originally Posted by sneebot

I would assume camera is tool breakage sensor(?)

I don't think the v500 had all the bugs worked out of the 'drip feed'.

yeah, i think the only thing the camera can do is detect either a broken or dropped tool. hopefully i get to power this up in the next few weeks to find out.

on the control, i think as long as it can do decent "high speed" contouring (like up to 100ipm) and i can up the ram to take bigger programs, its all good.

100 ipm? For any complex contouring the processor won't be able to keep up. If you happen to get the 'drip feed' working the transfer rate will not be able to keep up with the machine. It transfers in batches and slows to a crawl (transfer) when processing complex contours. The control is just not up to high speed contouring.

ahh. are the later versions (603, 703) better, or is it just the nature of a late 80's computer?

I have 6xxxx series SW I think they went with a *slightly* faster processor with the 7xxx series. I note these issues with the 6xxxx but I can't imagine they'd be that much better with the 7xxxx. You can get the machine to do faster contouring if you orient the toolpath to take advantage of as many (long) straight moves as possible. But again not ideal for lots of complex 3D moves. It also depends on if you are surfacingn a entire object (for example a complex (industrial designy) enclosure of some sort) vs. machining large portions and then going in and surfacing small bits.

thanks for the feedback.

for the most part, the parts i make are arcs and lines. the parts that have some real segmented contours are usually small areas, like the top of a guitar tail piece. and because those are metal, and the spindle is 8krpm, speeds of 20-40ipm would be about max anyway. i would occasionally want to go faster for things like moulds, but its not going to make me head out and retrofit straight off.

the things i do with serious 3d contours are guitar tops and outlines. because they are wood, they can be cut as fast as the machine can move. on my novakone with 3500rpm i would 3d contour at 100ipm.

worst case i think is we dont make wood guitar parts on this machine. probably for the best anyway, wood dust is evil.

so, i got the manuals. lots of them. maintenance, service, user, programming etc. also got the purchase and repair logs.

this machine was bought/installed in nov 1987 by goodyear. theres a service record up to 1995 from the same owner. i think at that point it was sold to someone else and used lightly until 2007. most of the major service seems to be cleaning oily encoders. the last bit of service was spindle gearbox. im betting they decided to sell it rather than fix it.

the control is a 432/10 v500, which is apparently original, as is the renishaw probe and tool breakage monitor.

it had a simulation graphics option, and dnc step 2 option. has 45k of program space.. there was a 256k upgrade crossed out, so i guess they didnt want to pay for that. also lists a brown and sharp coord measuring machine... but i dont know what that it or if its part of the physical machine.

im also 99% sure now that im missing the main coolant tank. i think the tank i have is for the through spindle coolant only, or at least thats what the specs lead me to believe.

the spec runn down says:

8000rpm dc spindle with gearbox
590ipm rapids
157ipm feed
20rpm rotary table
5 second tool change
16 second pallet chane
tool break detection
renishaw probe (actual probe missing)
150psi spindle coolant through (small tank)
150 gallon coolant tank (missing)
chip conveyor
3+1 axis operation (any 3 axis can move at once, but not all 4)
48 position tool changer
6" 22lbs max tool diametre/weight
.0003" linear precision (scales)
clutches on ball screw drives for crash damage minimising
"skc3" way coating (moglice-ish)
control has 3d contouring (g64), helical interpolation, rigid tap
tool life monitor that swaps out tools after a predetermined lifespan

good stuff, haha. now lets hope it all works

5 sec tool change? The 600E2 is 25-30 sec (1989-1990 machine), not sure what the spec is for the 600E2.

yeah, claims 5 seconds. its a double gripper on top of the ram, so i can believe its alot faster than the little robot on the later universal mahos.

of interesting note, since i have the sales receipt, i know what this machine cost new. any guesses? :P