Thread: maho mc600 and mc5hs

so, they mystery of the coolant system is solved. the original system was replaced with one that sits BELOW grade. they build a custom drain to send the coolant into the small tank that would sit below the floor level of the machine. they also built a chip tunnel to send the chips from the conveyor down below the floor too.

so, basically, i cannot use this setup. i will need to modify it with an intermediate pump and tray.

they also removed the through spindle coolant valve and hoses. the control solenoid is still there, so i could put it back on if i wanted, but im thinking at this point ill do it up the way they did, only with the addition of a pump to use the tank above the floor.

i cant imagine why they did this to the system, but at least its all figured out now.

ive pulled off a few panels from the machine and all the doors. so far its pretty straight forward disassembly and should be easy to reassemble. my goal is to get the whole cabin and way cover system off, tilt the ATC carousel back, wash everything, and put it back together. i wil be trying not to touch any electrical / hydraulic / coolant gear unless its connected to the covers.

also might be able to get a transformer in a few days. guy has to check if its 380v (he thinks it is).

took off the sides of the cabinet. relatively easy job all this, but the parts are pretty awkward and heavy for one person. i need a helper, haha.

ive realised though i cant take the x axis way covers off without taking the table off, so ill just be pulling them out a bit and washing them then putting them back on. shouldnt be to big a deal.

this thread is feeling neglected. finally got my power transformer today. hopefully i can get somone to wire it before the weekend, so i can start it up. that should be fun, ha!

eep.

so, electrician should wire up the beast this week, and well see what happens.

i found a video of a machine like mine running though today. it should how the tool changer works, and how fast it is. about 5 second change, closer to 20 seconds chip to chip. rapids are also nice and fast. also shows it air tapping. the machine in the video is slightly newer, standard version, so theoretically mines even faster.



gotta get the damned thing turned on now!

That is interesting....never seen a strictly horizontal Maho change tools before. A bit frustrating that whoever took that video apparently knew nothing about editing programs to reduce the "doing nothing interesting" time however.

One reason you may have little response on this initially is that it wasn't clear that you actually bought the machine...sounded like you were still dreaming. But, now that we know....

yeah, video sucks, but it gives a decent idea of how it works.

in the first post i had found 2 machines, didnt know what they were and asked questions.

i didnt buy the machine till a few weeks later. anyhow, not sure if the electrician will make it today... will find out soon.

alright. this machine is..... ON!

woot.

ok, so now what the heck do i do with it.

i reconnected every wire in the control, and am 90% sure its all done right.

the machine starts up, and displays error 55. this is "hydraulics not on". and sure enough, they arent. the pressure is at 0, ball lock valve closed.

so according to the instructions, you press the hydraulics on button on the control, and they should pressurise. but they do not.

so after some time reading the manuals and rechecking my wiring, im not sure whats up. anyone have any insight? i know ive read about some tricky methods of restarting them and clearing the error, ill have to do some searching.

i did notice some other things while poking:

- the start screen says a few things are missing. the one that strikes me is one of the input/output modules, which is definitely installed.

wonder if those have any relation to the hydraulics not turning on. its also concievable i wired the hydraulics switch wrong, but highly unlikely. the error message changes to 54 (e stop) when i press the button, whihc seems to me its working on the button end.

any help would be appreciated.. to move on to the next error message :p

The way it is supposed to work is your press "on" hydraulics come on but don't stay until until you press "clear" twice while holding "on" button down. Are you saying hydraulics not on at all ? If so, most common issue is E stop situation usually cause by axis on limit switch. Ignore the I/O troubleshooting screen as it is more confusing than helpful.

thanks for the quick response.

i follows the on / clear routine. i get NO action out of the hydraulics at all.

the e stop sounds logical.. where would this switch be? the travel is roughly in the middle on all 3 axes. maybe some debris on it?

also read from someone that the pump may be finikey about the mains phases. swapping 2 phases might do something.

well, that gives me 2 things to try anyway
i might go back tonight and try it.. but its getting late, and i have to pretend to work tomorrow :p

so, i tried reversing the mains leads. monitor shut off, haha. otherwise nothing.

i am suspecting that the e stop issue is valid, cause when you press hydraulics on, it errors 54 - an e stop. BUT, i can not find any switches or limits or sensors tripped. i DO have most of the cabinet panels off, meaning the door sensors are loose, but they are "normally off" so it should not be them. there is an e stop pull rope thats dangling loose as well. but again, normal state is loose, so it should not be that. ive tried pushing these switches and nothings changed. i wiped off the limit switches as well, which were not near the limits.

hmmmmm. gotta be in there somewhere.

uuuuser errrror.

ah well, theres a reason i never had a job as an electrician.

the mistake was one of the phases going In to the transformer seems not to have the correct voltage. i thought i had triple checked this, but i guess you need 4 times. one seems to be 1/2 the voltage required. ill have to trace it back. the wiring goes from the 600v mains, to a 208v transformer, to a box, to the maho transformer. i didnt not set up the 208v, and its been mostly used for single phase, so it just may not be wired correctly for 3.

it explains i think why things running on single (pc, lights, etc) were working, but anything with a motor was not.

so, once this is fixed tonight, hopefully the hydraulics will start, and we can move along.

Dangit...will someone else jump in here so I don't have to keep wasting my time with this guy ? Look, this isn't a Bridgeport...even the MH600 is waaaaaay more complicated than that. Apparently you are even ignorant of the 3 motors that drive the spindle gear changer, the automatic oiler, the hydraulic tool changer, the specific Indramat axis drive system, and on and on.... but I'm done...just DO IT...if it's so easy, and come back to boast about it.

I know this is a bit old of a thread. But I did. I bought a MAHO MH 700 C with a broken Philips control. I retrofitted it with LinuxCNC with a few Mesa-cards and several home-brewn electronics (interfaces). It's running since (I think) two years now. Gear changes are smoother than original (I was told), hand wheel works etc.
I still need to finish the rack for the electronics and cast a nice enclosure for the hand wheel ...
That was my FIRST retrofit. And my FIRST contact with LinuxCNC.

Admittedly, it took some time. And admittedly, I made some not-so-good decisions. And admittedly, I was a programmer in my previous live and needed some help at the beginning.
I even sold a few parts of the control.

My retrofit is almost completely plug compatible with the original control. I added a few lines and had to replace the glass scales (the efford to read them would have been to time consuming).

It can be done.
Nick

Originally Posted by Nick Mueller

I know this is a bit old of a thread. But I did. I bought a MAHO MH 700 C with a broken Philips control. I retrofitted it with LinuxCNC with a few Mesa-cards and several home-brewn electronics (interfaces). It's running since (I think) two years now. Gear changes are smoother than original (I was told), hand wheel works etc.
I still need to finish the rack for the electronics and cast a nice enclosure for the hand wheel ...
That was my FIRST retrofit. And my FIRST contact with LinuxCNC.

Admittedly, it took some time. And admittedly, I made some not-so-good decisions. And admittedly, I was a programmer in my previous live and needed some help at the beginning.
I even sold a few parts of the control.

My retrofit is almost completely plug compatible with the original control. I added a few lines and had to replace the glass scales (the efford to read them would have been to time consuming).

It can be done.
Nick

this thread isnt old! :p

but im glad your here. i looked at alot of your videos on the retrofit. i meant, its just a bunch of parts. someone else made it, so why cant you? granted, my machine is ALOT more complex than most mahos of the era, but its still just parts.

and speaking of my machine. well, another day, another user error (or stupidity) induced wild goose chase. but definite progress.

so, after figuring out my mains power was goofy, i fixed that. one phase was simply not connected at all. once that was down, i started the machine and hit the hydraulics button. it made some noise, but no pressure was being gained. i assumed from what i mentioned before, the pump was running backwards. the hunch was correct, and after swapping 2 cables, we got full pressure.

now, i tried many many times, and just could not get the button pushing dance right to get the hydraulics to stay on. grrrrr. then suddenly, after mashing on pretty much everything on the control panel it all goes quiet. the button no longer does anything.

now heres where the stupid comes in. i immediately assume ive broken the button, or relay by pushing it too much. i check all the wiring, and after maybe 1/2 hour of goofing around, i decide its not broken. i can make the pump run by triggering the relay directly.

so i try again and (finally) look down at the error code display. 54. thats an e stop. i then proceed to seek out e stop issues, and after another 1/2 hour find nothing.

its only after all that i look into the cabin... both the Y and Z axes have homed... and of course the limits are triggered, accounting for the 54.

so, nothing broken, and i know at least 2 axes work! woohoo.

and now the problem: how do i get them un stuck, and how do i get these damned hydraulics to stay on?

Originally Posted by Nick Mueller

It can be done.
Nick

I just wanted to say that Nick Mueller has some inspirational if understated videos on youtube.

Kanal von MuellerNick - YouTube

A couple of my faves:



[videxo=youtube;MPhDBMr6DlI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPhDBMr6DlI&feature=plcp[/video]

You have included a total of 2 videos in your message. The maximum number that you may include is 1. Please correct the problem and then continue again.

The use of videos is subject to them being enabled by the administrator.

Grrrr.

MfG
<jbc>
.

granted, my machine is ALOT more complex than most mahos of the era, but its still just parts.

Mine doesn't have a tool changer (I'm the one) and no pallet changer. But that are only two more steps to be done.
I spent a lot of time reading the wiring diagram of my MAHO to understand why things don't work.
Two broken cables and one relays went kaput. Besides the obviously non-working electronics of the 432. Also, at least one jerk had been working in the cabinet. The controller for the DC spindle motor wasn't connected as it should have been, plus wrong parameters. And the 1TR3 (Indramat) for the servos was kaput. The +/- 15 V supply didn't work. To disguise that, the red LED that indicates an error had been bent to the side, so you could not see that without opening the Indramat's cabinet.

Nick

and how do i get these damned hydraulics to stay on?

The hydraulics won't stay on, as long as there is an open relays in the E-stop chain. Look at the wiring diagram and find out where that is. It's a an array of contacts that are in series. The hydraulics button bridges part of that chain. If there is no E-stop condition, it will be self-holding. If not, the pump stops as soon as you release the button.

how do i get them un stuck,

You should have hand wheels on the axises? Use them.


Nick

Originally Posted by Nick Mueller

The hydraulics won't stay on, as long as there is an open relays in the E-stop chain. Look at the wiring diagram and find out where that is. It's a an array of contacts that are in series. The hydraulics button bridges part of that chain. If there is no E-stop condition, it will be self-holding. If not, the pump stops as soon as you release the button.



You should have hand wheels on the axises? Use them.


Nick

no handwheels on this puppy. the Y (vertical) screw and motor pully isnt even visible let alone accessible to turn.

on the hydraulics. there was no e stop condition before te accidental homing, and it would not hold. but in now reading that it may need all the parameters done before it will hold. so i think thats my next step.... thats not going to be fun.

Originally Posted by Nick Mueller

Mine doesn't have a tool changer (I'm the one) and no pallet changer. But that are only two more steps to be done.

tool life monitor and tool tracking. tool break detection camera, few other bits. but yes, if you just take them one by one, you should manage a conversion with few problems.

i (so far) have a working machine, so hopefully i dont need to go down that route for a while.

on the hydraulics. there was no e stop condition before te accidental homing, and it would not hold.

You need to completely understand the E-stop chain. I hope you have the schematics. If not ... good luck!
There are several E-stop conditions. And as long as you don't precisely locate the reason, you are just waisting time poking around. You find it with a multimeter and the schematics within minutes*). Reasons (just to name a few): Over temperature of servo (might be a broken cable, or a defunct temp sensor), hydraulics pressure, way oil level below min, ...

Again: Measure, don't guess. The schematics will answer a lot of questions.

*)
Well, if you understood how it works. That took a lot of time for me. I even didn't know and understand how the diagram was to be read. I know electronics, but not that relays-crap and how they named the contacts.
You'll end up flipping pages back and forth a zillion times to find the source of a signal that should be there but isn't.


Nick