Agie progress v

Dave EDM · Dec 4, 2012

AGIE PROGRESS V
I am getting a 'negative erosion' message when de-tagging an aperture. Typically, on a job with say 15 apertures, 1 will not de-tag because when the wire enters towards the cut line, it backs off with a 'prolonged request for negative erosion message. If I let it continue it will either simply pulse back and forth, or run back to the start hole and stop. All other shapes on the same job will de-tag with no problem.

Agie have not been much help. Dose anyone know what's going on??
Dave

Matt_W · Dec 4, 2012

Dave EDM said:
AGIE PROGRESS V
I am getting a 'negative erosion' message when de-tagging an aperture. Typically, on a job with say 15 apertures, 1 will not de-tag because when the wire enters towards the cut line, it backs off with a 'prolonged request for negative erosion message. If I let it continue it will either simply pulse back and forth, or run back to the start hole and stop. All other shapes on the same job will de-tag with no problem.

Agie have not been much help. Dose anyone know what's going on??
Dave

Hi Dave,

I had a problem with tag removal on an open contour with copper throwing up some weird messages. If I changed which mode of tech it was calling up (to main or any other) rather the tec mode it called up for tag removal it worked. As a dummy run I also changed the tech to steel and that was fine, seemed to be an issue with the tech file with those paramters. Maybe it's the same as your problem. As above change the tech mode to main and back the power down.

Dave EDM · Dec 4, 2012

Matt,
Thanks for that, will try playing with tech next time this happens.
Dave

Matt_W · Dec 4, 2012

Dave EDM said:
Matt,
Thanks for that, will try playing with tech next time this happens.
Dave

Let me know if it works.

I'm surpised you say that Agie haven't been much help, they've always been great with me on the whole. Who have you been speaking to?

Dave EDM · Dec 6, 2012

I don't want to give the wrong impression about Agie Technical Support. In the past I have spoken to both Adrian and Mathew and they have been helpfull and patient with a novice wire eroder! I appreciate it can sometimes be difficult to resolve a problem over the phone. I did send an email with a photo but got no reply.

This is an intermittent problem so may not occur again for a while.

Thanks again for your response.

Rolf B. · Dec 6, 2012

I am not familiar with the Progress Wire EDM, but assume that the 'negative erosion" means the wire is in "short circuit". On the HSS machines you get that message when the wire is in actual contact with your work piece. The wire will back out of the cut and reverse back to the start hole, and since you are cutting copper, your tag is most likely too thin and the slug has twisted enough to close off the kerf. My 2 cents worth.

edmtraining · Dec 7, 2012

progress

Dave EDM said:
AGIE PROGRESS V
I am getting a 'negative erosion' message when de-tagging an aperture. Typically, on a job with say 15 apertures, 1 will not de-tag because when the wire enters towards the cut line, it backs off with a 'prolonged request for negative erosion message. If I let it continue it will either simply pulse back and forth, or run back to the start hole and stop. All other shapes on the same job will de-tag with no problem.

Agie have not been much help. Dose anyone know what's going on??
Dave

Hi Dave

drop me an email at [email protected] with a contcat number and I will ring you and talk through you problem with some solutions options. I use to work for Agie uk and know these machines very well indeed
Neil

Dave EDM · Dec 10, 2012

Rolf B. said:
I am not familiar with the Progress Wire EDM, but assume that the 'negative erosion" means the wire is in "short circuit". On the HSS machines you get that message when the wire is in actual contact with your work piece. The wire will back out of the cut and reverse back to the start hole, and since you are cutting copper, your tag is most likely too thin and the slug has twisted enough to close off the kerf. My 2 cents worth.

Rolf,
Thanks for your thoughts. I am cutting hardened tool steel and the problem has occured with material between 5mm and 50mm thick and tags of up to 10mm long. There are other odd things going on with the technology which I don't quite understand and I think they are all related, so I need to have another look at my settings.

Many thanks,
Dave

agieman · Dec 10, 2012

Hi Dave, Rolf is correct prolonged negative erosion means that you are in short circuit and the machine has backed up and cant clear the short. Most likely you have cut through the tag completely and the slug is pushing the wire into the side of the piece. It also could be that the tag has become so thin that the slug is moving and pinching the wire. Make sure the exit tec is longer than your tag so that it is cut with lower power and flush. I would be glad to look at your tec files and answer any questions you may have.

Dave EDM · Dec 12, 2012

agieman said:
Hi Dave, Rolf is correct prolonged negative erosion means that you are in short circuit and the machine has backed up and cant clear the short. Most likely you have cut through the tag completely and the slug is pushing the wire into the side of the piece. It also could be that the tag has become so thin that the slug is moving and pinching the wire. Make sure the exit tec is longer than your tag so that it is cut with lower power and flush. I would be glad to look at your tec files and answer any questions you may have.

Thanks for your response.
I get the 'negative erosion' on entry, before the wire has reached the profile and before it starts to cut the tag. I am typically cutting 25mm thick tool steel with a long enough tag to prevent any chance of the slug moving/twisting, so I don't think this is the cause.
Not sure how I can send you my technology files, I'll have to have a think about that!

Regards
Dave

implmex · Dec 12, 2012

Hi Dave:
Is there a chance you might have a wire remnant or micro slug trapped in the lower wire guide, that's flapping around giving you an intermittent short?
I had a helluva time with that problem when my machine was still brand new.
A ragged edge in a wire drive component was shaving the wire and leaving brass chips everywhere in the wire transport system.
Drove me nuts with erratic wire short messages until I pulled the wire guide and found the shavings.
Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix – Design & Innovation - home
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining

agieman · Dec 12, 2012

Hi Dave, with that additional info i can guess that the problem is to much flush ( little p on your settings) as the wire is trying to go down an already eroded slot. It is bouncing all over, I've seen this many times. Just drop the flush (and maybe Power big P)and all will be fine. As far as sending tec, just save as user tec in the working steps section then go to file handling and look in the .UTK container. from there copy to memory stick and it's off the machine. if you need more info let me know.
Best Regahds,
Agieman

Dave EDM · Dec 13, 2012

implmex said:
Hi Dave:
Is there a chance you might have a wire remnant or micro slug trapped in the lower wire guide, that's flapping around giving you an intermittent short?
I had a helluva time with that problem when my machine was still brand new.
A ragged edge in a wire drive component was shaving the wire and leaving brass chips everywhere in the wire transport system.

Drove me nuts with erratic wire short messages until I pulled the wire guide and found the shavings.
Cheers

Marcus
Implant Mechanix – Design & Innovation - home
Vancouver Wire EDM -- Wire EDM Machining

Marcus,

Thanks for your interest.
I have looked for wire debris or anything that might cause a short, in both the upper and lower guide head, as well as the wire chopper - this does not seem to be the problem. Regarding the upper wire guide, and looking on the underside, there is a small recess approximately 5mm dia, inside this is what looks like a bush or collar. Should this be floating or fixed? Neither the diamonds or screws are loose.

Regards
Dave

Dave EDM · Dec 13, 2012

agieman said:
Hi Dave, with that additional info i can guess that the problem is to much flush ( little p on your settings) as the wire is trying to go down an already eroded slot. It is bouncing all over, I've seen this many times. Just drop the flush (and maybe Power big P)and all will be fine. As far as sending tec, just save as user tec in the working steps section then go to file handling and look in the .UTK container. from there copy to memory stick and it's off the machine. if you need more info let me know.
Best Regahds,
Agieman

Agieman,
I have tried reducing the power, (but not the flushing), so next time I get the problem I will play with the flush as well. This is an intermittent problem which might only affect one tag in fifty and there seems to be no similarities between affected tags.

I will try to send tec next time the problem occurs.

Regards
Dave

Girl23 · Mar 9, 2016

Dont know if it at all relates to your problem, but i got the negative erosion alarm. Which is indeed a short circuit. I looked everywhere inside the tank around my part expecting to see a slug short circuiting the wire. What I found finally was a sliver of a slug had fell out and was laying on the arm of the bottom head. I removed this and problem fixed. I would say this is what happened to you.

edmtraining · Mar 13, 2016

Dave EDM said:
AGIE PROGRESS V
I am getting a 'negative erosion' message when de-tagging an aperture. Typically, on a job with say 15 apertures, 1 will not de-tag because when the wire enters towards the cut line, it backs off with a 'prolonged request for negative erosion message. If I let it continue it will either simply pulse back and forth, or run back to the start hole and stop. All other shapes on the same job will de-tag with no problem.

Agie have not been much help. Dose anyone know what's going on??
Dave

Have you tried strategy at 0 this will allow machine to detail at full power

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