Bidding jobs

Hello everyone,
We are a traditional machine shop, mills/lathes, and have recently acquired a ram and wire EDM. We are finding that we are consistently higher than our competitors by a large margin, sometimes 50%. Our wire edm will give us runtimes when we plug in the program, so we are using that time per part, plus setup time, multiplied by our shop rate to figure out our price per part . With the ram edm , we really just go off the electrode size ,length of cut, and material to be removed to more or less guess at run time. We have ran quite a few jobs on it , so have a general idea about how long simple keyways take to run. My question to y'all is whether or not you include total runtime and setup time multiplied by shop rate or maybe half runtime half setup time multiplied by shop rate etc. I will say that our shop rate on the edm is the same as on our vmc's and lathes, but we don't have a person standing there only running the edm .Do y'all also include the time to build electrodes /fixtures and the cost of the wire? We usually quote small qty jobs of 5pcs or less. Any input would be greatly appreciated !

So it's either your shop rate is to high.But knowing who you are competing with.Your competition's rate might be to low

The newer machines depending on what you have, will keep track of cost. On the Makino U6, I got a couple of windows that I go into and enter consumable cost and the machine figures out the rate....

Keep in mind though, I'm not in a job shop and the mining company that I'm working for isn't interested in the price just my lead time on parts.

Using a wire EDM , a key way seems to be about 2 hrs as an average. I don't care for an oily mess and fighting a 1960's wore out key seat machine so usually toss a coupling in the EDM a generic macro program for key seats and I off doing some thing else....

If you aren't quick on set-ups, your costing yourself money.

I would figure electrodes/ fixtures as a misc shop supply. The last place I worked did it that way so I've always leaned that direction. If it's yours and the customer takes the job somewhere else they don't own the fixture

A good fixture will save you on set-ups.....My current fixture is around 300 lbs and took about a month to throw together...crusher parts don't care so test indicated and machine indicated, I'm easily within my tolerances. I've got (3) dozen parts that will repeat within .005 toss one in and come back the next day to a finished part....

Yes, I include electrode material cost, time to make them, set up, fixture (if needed), programming, everything needed to do the job. Your wire EDM hourly rate needs to include setup, consumables cost (filters, guides, contacts, resin, PM) which in our shop is 25% higher than chip making. We are usually quoting 1 -5 pieces as well.

I would/will not ever quote a EDM sinker job for anyone... As far as I am concerned, sinker EDM is a necessary evil we have to have in a mold shop.. If I kill a cavity that I built, that is my bad luck.. But to risk a few hundred dollars job on the EDM, at the risk of scrapping a part/cavity worth thousands... Ain't worth it...
The only sinker work I do is for parts I make, start to finish...