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adding a plasma torch to a laser cutter?

xa-mont

Hot Rolled
Joined
Apr 4, 2014
Location
Victoria, Australia
Hey guys,

I'm taking a look at a 1kw mazak laser cutter later this week, my main concern however is that the power might be a little low for some stuff I want to do (though I want the quality finish/accuracy of laser for thinner materials) and I was talking to a mate about it today and he suggested the idea of adding a plasma torch to it for thicker materials.

Is this a stupid idea for some reason? because to me it seems like I would be able to get the best of both worlds with the floor space of 1 and the cost of 1 and a bit.

I was thinking a simple mount off the side of the laser head to hold a plasma head, with the arc controlled with a spare m-code (if the machine has them)

Cheers,
Trav
 
I understand a plasma makes vastly more slag (dust, smoke) and needs a water bed.
If these are handled, and I see 0 reason one cannot easily fab them, it seems to make a lot of sense.

Handle EMI.
A (rel. small 3kW+/- as needed or so) used crap *on-line* ups for PCs is perhaps a good idea.
The batteries are worth nothing, but they can provide perfect isolation, and can be free, or near so.
This will keep the plasma electrical stuff from impacting anything else.

An on-line ups is different from the cheap consumer ones, and actually provides real total isolation from the grid.


One point.
It is not to code/practice .. usually .. but a separate ground bus bar usually solves a lot of noise issues with big noisy equipment.
So You might want to plan for a copper bus bar for the plasma stuff, totally separate from anything else.
Afaik it is not actually forbidden.
Anyone have details ?

Another point.
Power lines may have different potentials, especially if old buildings/wiring.
These may be 100-150V .. sparks jumping stuff.
Test.. then wire accordingly. Like using another power line/fuse/plug.

These are trivial to test/avoid/fix, and can cause major gremlins, errors, instability, "murphies".
Or equipment failure, sometimes expensive.

Likewise some mains lines have power leaks to earth/ground/chassis.
Test via multimeter. Trivial.
Rewire junction boxes, if needed, and or new plugs as needed.
Again cheap and easy, but can make errors happen *elsewhere* in mysterious ways.

Anecdote.
We had 150V sparks jumping from serial connectors, rs232, between pcs.
Reason was different ground potential on outlets.
Serials always worked fine, except some reason a connection to earth (should not happen) like connecting/removing cables etc. killing cards.
 
I understand a plasma makes vastly more slag (dust, smoke) and needs a water bed.
If these are handled, and I see 0 reason one cannot easily fab them, it seems to make a lot of sense.

Handle EMI.
A (rel. small 3kW+/- as needed or so) used crap *on-line* ups for PCs is perhaps a good idea.
The batteries are worth nothing, but they can provide perfect isolation, and can be free, or near so.
This will keep the plasma electrical stuff from impacting anything else.

An on-line ups is different from the cheap consumer ones, and actually provides real total isolation from the grid.


One point.
It is not to code/practice .. usually .. but a separate ground bus bar usually solves a lot of noise issues with big noisy equipment.
So You might want to plan for a copper bus bar for the plasma stuff, totally separate from anything else.
Afaik it is not actually forbidden.
Anyone have details ?

Another point.
Power lines may have different potentials, especially if old buildings/wiring.
These may be 100-150V .. sparks jumping stuff.
Test.. then wire accordingly. Like using another power line/fuse/plug.

These are trivial to test/avoid/fix, and can cause major gremlins, errors, instability, "murphies".
Or equipment failure, sometimes expensive.

Likewise some mains lines have power leaks to earth/ground/chassis.
Test via multimeter. Trivial.
Rewire junction boxes, if needed, and or new plugs as needed.
Again cheap and easy, but can make errors happen *elsewhere* in mysterious ways.

Anecdote.
We had 150V sparks jumping from serial connectors, rs232, between pcs.
Reason was different ground potential on outlets.
Serials always worked fine, except some reason a connection to earth (should not happen) like connecting/removing cables etc. killing cards.
Plasmas don't need a water bed, if they have enough air extraction underneath (my previous work had a 3*12m hypatherm 200a plasma)

The electrical interference could be a real issue, not sure how bad plasmas are for it though.

Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk
 
Hypertherm, you want a air not a HF torch to reduce the electrical noise - interferance issues. You don't need all that much plasma cutter wise either unless you want to go heavy on the thickness range.

I don't think it will play well with the laser though, think actually doing this will be a lot harder than you think and will throw up a fair few curve balls. Most industrial laser cutters don't have the extra axis you need for torch height control, unlike a old style gantry torch cutting setup.

IMHO i think you would do really well to look for a bit bigger laser assuming you have the incoming supply to run it. Because a 2K or 4Kw laser needs a couple of hundred amps of three phase at 415v by the time you include laser + chiller + extractor. lasers are horribly inefficient, but the cut is awsome!
 
Hypertherm, you want a air not a HF torch to reduce the electrical noise - interferance issues. You don't need all that much plasma cutter wise either unless you want to go heavy on the thickness range.

I don't think it will play well with the laser though, think actually doing this will be a lot harder than you think and will throw up a fair few curve balls. Most industrial laser cutters don't have the extra axis you need for torch height control, unlike a old style gantry torch cutting setup.

IMHO i think you would do really well to look for a bit bigger laser assuming you have the incoming supply to run it. Because a 2K or 4Kw laser needs a couple of hundred amps of three phase at 415v by the time you include laser + chiller + extractor. lasers are horribly inefficient, but the cut is awsome!
I'd love to go bigger, but price is a big consideration and this laser has come up at a good price, probably partially due to the size.

I could get a 200a supply in if I needed it (currently have 130 I think) but would prefer to not add that cost.

As far as height control, I wouldn't bother with it. I'd just go with a manually adjusted torch height. Obviously that isn't the best way to go, and will give far less than ideal pierces, but that wouldn't be a major concern.

Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk
 
As far as height control, I wouldn't bother with it. I'd just go with a manually adjusted torch height. Obviously that isn't the best way to go, and will give far less than ideal pierces, but that wouldn't be a major concern.

Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk

You really, really need to search out Jim Colt's writings on
what kind of height accuracy you'll need. A couple
of his online articles give good numbers.
If you don't want to mess with height control, go with oxy.
 
you really want auto height control. mine is on the fritz right now, and its driving me crazy. Its okay to cut small shapes- a foot square or less- but, inevitably, in anything up to about 1/4" thick, the sheet will warp as its cut, and become wavy in the Z. That means you gotta really be on top of the standoff height- and that means being able to reach the entire table, while its cutting, and raise and lower the torch while wearing goggles and a respirator. Not a lot of fun.
also, plasma puts out a LOT of grit, beyond just sparks and smoke. The smoke turns to greasy brown film on every surface, and the grit piles up all over. If your laser has delicate parts, they will get gritty fast, and need constant cleaning.
 
Just go careful, the costs of ownership on a older beam path laser can get massive fast. Theres a lot of parts that wear out on them and none of those are cheap.

Beam path mirrors are several hundred each, turbo pumps - blowers in the laser don't live for ever and there thousands, theres significant servicing costs.

Best advice i can give is get the laser inspected by the guy your going to have maintain it, price up what it needs and make sure you have the funds to keep it running, because your going to need several thousand on a good year and possibly more akin to your purchase price or more on a bad one!
 
I'll be the only person servicing it. I'm not a high volume shop, most of my machine purchases are half about making money and half about making cool stuff for myself. I'll be having a chat to a guy I know who used to sell them to see what he thinks would be possibly costly issues

Sent from my G8141 using Tapatalk
 
Adama is right.

Depending on the make of the equipment you are looking at a quick 10k-20k for replacement turbos and such. Mirrors can get up to $6k depending on which mirror it is. What type of resonator is on it? can it be serviced in the shop or does it have to be pulled out and sent somewhere?


You will need to look into your gases as well, laser gas, nitrogen and oxygen. Then you have placement of your bottles, can you put them close by, or do they have to be across the shop? if they are across the shop you will need to run copper line.

Will a dust collector come with the machine?

If its a low hour machine you may get by for a while before having to do a refurb.

Lasers are great, but the little crap can sneak up on you.
 
^ you have experience servicing co2 lasers?????? IMHO unless you have been shown how, its not DIY unless your use to working around high power optics and know how to clean - do the in-depth resonator servicing. Its a lot more involved than a CNC mill and the works got its own set of quirks.
 
I would not in a million years take on owning a co2 laser unless I had +$50k in the bank at my disposal.
If it's Fanuc, you are definitely looking at serious cash on service. Oh my power supply went $10k. Shucks my mirrors need replaced. $15-20k. Most is not self serviceable no matter your skill level. We have a very experienced and knowledgeable maint. staff, but when it comes to down time and productivity, you need factory service.
 








 
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