Bertsch Model 14 Help
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    Default Bertsch Model 14 Help

    We have just installed a Bertsch Model 14 made in 1974. It's a 3 roll machine
    We are rolling 1 inch thick 6 inch wide with varying diameters. I am seeking help on how to roll the rings consistently and minimize flat spots. Also, help with the formula for cutting material length to get correct diameter. There is not very much info out there and any help would be much appreciated.
    Also, we are changing out the fluids and need help with some terminology. What is a Roll Box Way and a Worm pocket?

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    Its an initial pinch machine, and the ability to "kink" the material slightly FIRST contributes to roundness

    Shifiting a roll to do the "pinching" involves that worm and those ways I expect

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    Its an initial pinch machine, and the ability to "kink" the material slightly FIRST contributes to roundness

    Shifiting a roll to do the "pinching" involves that worm and those ways I expect
    Can you explain the proper way to run the equipmet to turn a round ring?
    Thanks in advance

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    First thing to do is get a manual and digest same. Here are a few, may not be exactly for your machine, but a good way to get a handle on fundamentals

    Bertsch manual | eBay

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnoder View Post
    First thing to do is get a manual and digest same. Here are a few, may not be exactly for your machine, but a good way to get a handle on fundamentals

    Bertsch manual | eBay
    We have the 48 page on ebay and have the fundamentals Just looking for advice that's not included in manual.
    shortcuts etc. Manual seemed a little vague

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    Default Bertsch Model 14 Manual

    mechanical-hydraulic-operators-manual-old-style-.jpg
    I have attached a few pages of the manual explaining how to run a cylinder but it seems very vague.
    Especially on the preform for the end look at number 3 on the attachment "required setting" what setting is that?
    We are having issues with the plate staying square and getting the preform right
    Any help would be appreciated

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    Rolling is a black art- every machine is different, and every batch of steel can roll differently at the same settings.
    The "required setting" is different for every different thickness, width, radius, and alloy of steel.
    The only way to know it is to do a few hundred, or thousand, of em.
    Basically, they are telling you to preform the end to your desired radius. The guys who wrote the manual have no idea what your radius is- hence the vague terminology.
    There is a reason why people spend lots of money for new, CNC, 4 roll machines- they are easier to get reliable results from.
    On some materials, I cut the blank long, roll it to 90% or so, and pry up the overlap while doing it. Then pull the piece, cut off the long ends, and reroll the whole thing to 100%. If I am confident about circumference, I sometimes weld the ends together, grind em flush, and then reroll.
    Depends on your machine, and your end product, and how accurate it needs to be.
    Fabrication is not machining- there are lots of things that need to be reinvented every time, depending on your project and your machines.
    If you really need an unskilled employee to crank these out all day long, and they have to be perfect, you should be taking blanks to new machinery dealers, and thinking about writing 100,000 dollar checks.
    Otherwise, you need experienced guys, and to expect time and material wastage dialing in.
    Aint no magic bullet.

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    If your qty's are high enough, and the tolerances tight enough, you could invest in
    an "expander", it would get rid of all your problems.

    Fontijne Grotnes BV - Expanders

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    Thanks Gentlemen
    Ries, Are you saying "If I am confident about circumference, I sometimes weld the ends together, grind em flush, and then reroll."
    you can reroll after you weld the two ends together? I guess that would help clean up preform. We are trying to stay within 1/8" of desired id.
    Thanks in advance

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    yes, you can reroll after you weld the ends together, assuming you have something close to your finished diameter. And, of course, assuming you have a slip roll that the top roll will open up. Sometimes the weld will break, if you try to move the metal too far- but with a good penetration weld in 1" plate, I cant imagine that would be a problem.
    Rerolling the welded circle means that the whole thing, including the slightly flat or over pre-formed ends, goes thru at the same radius setting.

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    Is there a book "Rolling Plate Metal for Dummies"? We are running 6" wide 1" thick sticks and everything looks good until we try to bring the ends together and the ends start to point away from each other side to side.

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    There are NO books about rolling. I have been looking for close to 40 years. There are a couple ancient books with a page or two, that are usually just a photo or diagram and naming the parts.
    You are describing corkscrewing.
    Its a constant problem if the rolls are not perfectly parallel.
    And they almost never are.
    The rolls may be moving slightly under pressure. There may be more wear on one side than another. And the steel itself may just want to move that way.
    I am assuming the rolls are much wider than 6"- for rolling rings, repetitvely, you generally would use an angle roll, rather than a plate roll, where you can configure the dies to have a hard stop left and right, so the corkscrewing is much less likely to happen. But an angle roll to roll 1" x 6" is a pretty big, and rare, beast. 1" x 6" is not, technically, "plate"- its "section". Something like this would probably do it with much more predictability- but, of course, you already have the other roll, and these are expensive.
    "Highly Accurate, Dependable Metal Fabricating Machines"



    I have to "tweak" most everything I roll.
    With smaller stuff, its easier.
    1" x 6", you will have to do it in a hydraulic press.

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    Bertsch Model 14 made in 1974. It's a 3 roll machine capable of rolling up to three inch metal. Our business model has changed into electrical work and we no longer need it. Is there still a market for this type of machine?

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    go to the Megafab/Bertsch web site. I think they have a lot of the information you need there. When rolling you will get flats on the leading and trailing edges.

    John

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    Thanks for reply We were really looking to sell the machine and looking for the best route to sell it.
    Looking for a broker that specializes in rolling equipment


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