Building my dream press

CPM2014 · Dec 29, 2016

I have been playing around with press designs for over a year and I have finally settled on one. It is based off of a press made by Dave Propst with a few tweaks here and there.

I come from a background of tool and die and it seams that most projects built by die makers are way over built. I don't believe that this will be an exception. All press components will be made from Blanchard ground HRS (solid). Cross beams are 1.5" x 10"

Here are the specs as designed:

-49" opening between uprights
-19" open end
-Traveling cylinder riding on bearings
-Electric over Hydraulic 10K psi pump
-50T Enerpac Single acting cylinder
-Overall dims are 80" tall, 80" wide
-Working surface is 13.5" deep

So far I have ordered all material and had Commerce Grinding in Dallas grind all of the plates. I should start machining this week.

CAD Model

WILLEO6709 · Dec 29, 2016

I'd stick with round pins.... easy to replace. You'll never bend them when you are not using it..... but when I use my press I need it right effing then..... but maybe you just make 3-4 sets when you build it.....

CPM2014 · Dec 29, 2016

WILLEO6709 said:
I'd stick with round pins.... easy to replace. You'll never bend them when you are not using it..... but when I use my press I need it right effing then..... but maybe you just make 3-4 sets when you build it.....

Flat sides on the pins are by design. Round pins are actually something that drives me nuts. The load point being on the apex of a round pin always seems to Waller out the holes.

I will be making mine out of hardened tool steel with a pretty close fit. They won't bend and they shear at 4.5 times the capacity of the press. Not as easy to make them but, if I was going for easy I would just buy a press.

CPM2014 · Dec 29, 2016

I've been tossing around the idea of adding a grid of tapped holes on the main plate. Has anyone done this before? If so did it add much functionality?

jtaylor · Dec 29, 2016

Hi,

Watch the 1st video in post #35 in this thread:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...iend-sell-his-machine-shop-310828/index2.html

It is a really slick way to raise and lower your table with the only cost of adding a double action to your cylinder.

CPM2014 · Dec 29, 2016

jtaylor said:
Hi,

Watch the 1st video in post #35 in this thread:

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...iend-sell-his-machine-shop-310828/index2.html

It is a really slick way to raise and lower your table with the only cost of adding a double action to your cylinder.

Yeah, I agree with you 100%. Unfortunately, or fortunately, I found a single action for a price I couldn't resist so I going to have to adjust the table height manually. Fortunately the cylinder has 13.25" or travel so I shouldn't need to change table height very often.

adama · Dec 30, 2016

CPM2014 said:
I've been tossing around the idea of adding a grid of tapped holes on the main plate. Has anyone done this before? If so did it add much functionality?

Yep, hell yep, gets used all the time, threaded it the same as the bridgeport clamp sets, works awesome. Don't really have a grid, just 2 rows of threaded holes clean through the bottom beam at circa 2" centres.

IMHO the enpac cylinders better but you really want a press specific cylinder, they have far larger rod diameters than normally and bearings to resist the side loads. That said, its something you can easily upgrade.

You need a means to raise - lower the table, its a must, my press has 4 threaded tie rods instead of your flat and pins, makes it a doodle to adjust any throat i need and its the top not bottom beam i move, makes it ever easier to raise - lower holding the weight with the ram whilst adjusting the tie rod nuts. theoretically structurally my press is good to north of 33 tons a tie rod (minimum grade 8 M30 tensile properties) so evenly distributed i could jump upto a 120 ton ram, leaves me plenty of capacity for the current 30 ton cylinder.

One other thing thats very usefull if you want to make tooling to press - punch simple parts and thats a large die set with a grid of tapped holes too, its lovely to be able to make simple tooling and run em at high tonnage whilst holding perfect alignments. Diesets are pretty cheap too! keeps all the nasty side loads of your delicate ram.
.

adama · Dec 30, 2016

IMHO just read the pins bit, its a waste of time, you want thoes side plates to hold up, cut em out of something harder - make them thicker. Round pins are a proven thing, they only stuff holes when overloaded and your not going to achieve that with a 50 ton cylinder on that design.

Double pin idea is also a waste of time, the top pin will do all the work whilst the bottom does nothing do to your tie bars elongating under loading.

Put the efforts into making a better ram! That will pay off.

Ries · Dec 30, 2016

I would agree that oval, double pins, are overkill.
Instead, make your frame heavier.
I built mine ostensibly to take a 50 ton ram, and currently am running a 30 ton cylinder which is powered both directions- and the frame still makes unpleasant noises sometimes- I would be happier if it was herkier.

I think threaded holes in your base plate are a good idea.
MIne has a travelling cylinder plate, but I have only moved it off center once in almost 15 years- and that was for some light duty riveting.
Probably not worth doing.
I also have moved the height of the lower platen exactly once, in 15 years.
I have this nice winch setup, it works fine. But 99% of the time, its already the right height.

adama · Dec 30, 2016

Ries riveting how did you find it? did you need to guide both tools to keep it centred? Have some to do on the press. Equally i have a long term job we have been mulling over for a year or 2 now thats got a couple of hundred rivets, but to reach would need something akin to a 2' G clamp with both a wide and deep throat to get the needed clearances.

adama · Dec 30, 2016

One thing i forgot to add, you want a pressure gauge, you want some idea of how hard your squeezing things. Lets you be a lot more gentle on tooling if your doing forming operations rather than just bumping out at full tonnage! When you only need a few tons.

atomarc · Dec 30, 2016

I agree with a previous posters comment..you need a much more stout frame. The uprights should have a 'section' to them, much like a piece of channel or a tube. Flat bar will typically allow the frame to twist during a hard push. The frame needs to be a ridged skeleton, so to speak.

A pressure gauge is also a must..you'll want to see how hard the press is and often want to creep up on a push or recreate a push pressure.

Stuart

DDoug · Dec 30, 2016

I don't know why you are taking such extremes for a simple shop press.

Any press to do accurate work will have the tooling mounted in a die set.

CPM2014 · Dec 30, 2016

digger doug said:
I don't know why you are taking such extremes for a simple shop press.

Any press to do accurate work will have the tooling mounted in a die set.

Hmmm, you don't know why I might want a nicer piece of equipment?? I don't know if I can explain it to you.

A lot of good ideas guys. I did have a second piece bolted to the uprights but thought 1"x5" might be enough. I think I will add them back to the design.

I do have a Enerpac pressure gauge that is matched to the cylinder so it reads in tons vs psi.

Back to the grid question, does anyone have a reason where adding a full grid of tapped holes might be needed vs a few placed near the center of the plate? Say a 12x12 array? Or maybe 2 rows along the length of the plate? What with?

I have the 2 small plates on the open end slotted so you can adjust the width of the opening and then bolt it down.

Thanks for the responses guys!

DDoug · Dec 30, 2016

CPM2014 said:
Hmmm, you don't know why I might want a nicer piece of equipment?? I don't know if I can explain it to you.
!

I have designed and built my own presses.

There's no need for Blanchard grinding anything on this press, save the
mounting plate for the cylinder (for squareness to the cross beam)
and the pressing plate itself.

Your still not going to gain enough ridgedity and alignment to run a punch and die on this thing.

And as a proper maintenance press, your design is still lacking in some key area's.

CPM2014 · Dec 30, 2016

digger doug said:
I have designed and built my own presses.

There's no need for Blanchard grinding anything on this press, save the
mounting plate for the cylinder (for squareness to the cross beam)
and the pressing plate itself.

Your still not going to gain enough ridgedity and alignment to run a punch and die on this thing.

And as a proper maintenance press, your design is still lacking in some key area's.

I posted for informative input from guys that have done this before. Wasn't looking for generally broad and negative comments. If you have good advice, I'm all ears

DDoug · Dec 30, 2016

CPM2014 said:
I posted for informative input from guys that have done this before. Wasn't looking for generally broad and negative comments. If you have good advice, I'm all ears

It's not at all "broad and negative" comments. I did you give you "good" advice,
I do this for a living.

You wanted advice, not everything is happy joy joy.

Run some stress numbers and report back here.

Then maybe you'll see.

CPM2014 · Dec 30, 2016

digger doug said:
It's not at all "broad and negative" comments. I did you give you "good" advice,
I do this for a living.

You wanted advice, not everything is happy joy joy.

Run some stress numbers and report back here.

Then maybe you'll see.

I went with Blanchard ground steel because I needed a bunch of plates ground for some paying work and decided to lump this in with it. The second reason for solid plates are because I'm much more comfortable machine fit vs fabricated. I have run FEA tests on the design. Results were very little deflection in the cross bars and a slight twist to the verticals.

I truly am interested in advise as I described. If you have some I would be grateful. If youre trying to teach me a lesson than I'll pass.

adama · Dec 31, 2016

CPM2014 said:
holes might be needed vs a few placed near the center of the plate? Say a 12x12 array? Or maybe 2 rows along the length of the plate? What with?

In my case its about clamping forms down, due to the limited width of the beam (mines 8" x 24" bed size) 2 rows of holes at circa 2" centres with the std bridgeport table saddle clamps sets that are dirt cheap let you reach any were. Its really useful for holding things down - inplace - in alignment. Im not shareing pics of setups because i sure as hell don't want my competition seeing how i make some of the things i do, but trust me, if you can clamp something any were on the bed, it leaves you lots of options down the road. The holes are bugger all weakness wise + if its on a mill, dropping in 20 instead of 10 tapped holes is no effort at all. Lets you not only clamp tools down, but also stops to locate the work off.

I went through holes so they stay clearer, bending flat you get a lot of scale falling off.

Milland · Dec 31, 2016

CPM2014 said:
I went with Blanchard ground steel because I needed a bunch of plates ground for some paying work and decided to lump this in with it. The second reason for solid plates are because I'm much more comfortable machine fit vs fabricated. I have run FEA tests on the design. Results were very little deflection in the cross bars and a slight twist to the verticals.

I truly am interested in advise as I described. If you have some I would be grateful. If youre trying to teach me a lesson than I'll pass.

I would pay attention to what digger doug has to say. If you've done FEA, have you done it with offset loads? It's rare that you'll get the press components and parts all perfectly centered, and as you apply load you can bet that there'll be shifting, which will induce further twist in the press. To ignore these experienced folks is not a good thing, and I agree with them that flat sides would be better replaced with channel or other inherently stiffer sections.

To often I see people taking advice and well-intentioned suggestions wrong. Tamp down the "I know what I want, and I know what I'm doing" instinct, you'll be better off for it.

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