Chicago D&K Press Brake

Gentlemen,
I have a small home shop and I am doing some small welding/fabrication jobs as well as CNC plasma work as well. I am looking at buying a press brake to bend what I need to bend and had some questions for you. I am looking at a chicago Dries and Krump mechanical press brake. It is a model 6A10. It is a 60 ton press. That is plenty for what I am doing. It is being sold by a machinery dealer. They wanted like $9000 for it. That seemed far to damn expensive for an old press. I offered them $2500, which seems fair to me and they accepted it. I told them I wanted to see it running and that I wanted to check the machine over. They called back a couple of days later and said it was locked up. The salesman thought the clutch was locked up. He said they would sell it as is for $2000. To me, that seems expensive. I'd rather spend $2500 for a working press but spending $2000 not knowing what is wrong with it is a bit of a gamble. Am I off to offer him like $1500? How expensive are these parts from Chicago? It may be something very small, but then again, something very large too. What do you all think? Thanks!
Andy

Do you know what type of clutch it uses? Mine uses a sensitive clutch/brake that can be inched down and stopped any place. Some presses use a dog type that goes through the cycle without stopping. Can you get a picture of the clutch area?

Ed.

atex57 said:

Do you know what type of clutch it uses? Mine uses a sensitive clutch/brake that can be inched down and stopped any place. Some presses use a dog type that goes through the cycle without stopping. Can you get a picture of the clutch area?

Ed.

Click to expand...

Ed, Thank you for your help. I attached the brake below. Looking at the website, it doesn't say what kind of clutch it uses. Hopefully the picture will narrow down what it is. Thanks.
Andy

I reread your question. I'm pretty sure it is a clutch/brake. It has a foot treadle on it and the dealer says it can be feathered around. That is why I wanted to see it first before buying it. I don't want a dog type because once you hit it, thats it. In my case that would likely be screwed. Is the clutch brake a bitch to service? I don't mind fixing things but I don't want something to be broken and it will be $1000+ to fix it. Thanks again!
Andy

The Chicago press brake in the picture has a standard clutch disc with the brake to hold the press in position on the back side of the press if I remember correctly. In your picture you will see a fork that activates the clutch when you press the foot pedal/trudle . when you activate the clutch there is a linkage that expands the brake band to allow driven movement. The clutch is most likely a twin disc brand clutch, its a single disc the company's name is twin disc. if it is in fact stuck then the press when powered up should just keep cycling.
If it doesn't move at all when powered up then either the clutch is worn/out of adjustment or its a mechanical linkage issue. clutch adjustment is very simple on these.
Its a dirt simple drive system that is generally very reliable.
If it is in fact the clutch disc its no big deal as the clutch disc can be changed in about an hour.
Last time I changed the disc in ours it cost 100.00 bucks from Twin Disc.

I've got a 55 ton D&K mechanical brake that's probably a few years older than the one in your pic. Got it about 20 yrs ago for hauling it away, knowing up front that it needed some work.

On mine, when the clutch is in the released position the clutch disc is spring loaded against the fixed housing so it acts as a brake. When its actuated it moves in against another surface that's connected to the flywheel. There's riveted lining on both sides of the disc, and I had to replace that. Got the material from a local heavy truck clutch and brake rebuilder and cut the pieces to match the worn out ones. Not much money and not difficult to do.

I converted my clutch to air operation using a double acting cylinder and a foot operated 3 way valve I had laying around. Much more convenient IMO as compared to the original treadle. The pedal is connected to 3 pieces of 1/4 air hose which are ty-wrapped together. There's enough hose length to allow me to place the pedal wherever it works best for the particular job. Much less awkward than the original treadle and its fixed location.

It also has large gear sets at both ends riding in an oil bath. I had to make a new bronze bushing for one of the gears. About 6" bore, 3/4 wall, and maybe 4" wide. Back then, a standard 13" long piece of cored 660 bronze of the proper dimensions to allow machining of the ID and OD cost me about $150. Wouldn't surprise me if that piece of stock is $500 or more today given the price escalation of any copper alloys. It shouldn't be difficult to access the gear boxes on yours to use a pry bar and check for any wobble in the gears.

If the gears themselves are damaged, that would be a game ender. Wouldn't be worth the cost of repair even on a free machine.

I also added a reversing motor starter to mine. Its very handy for those times when the brake won't bend what you thought it would. Just reverse the motor and back the ram up.

If you're doing quantities typical of a place that does laser or plasma cutting and bending to order for outside customers, then IMO you'd be far ahead to spend a little more money and buy a hydraulic brake. Setup time is less. Inching of the ram is much easier to control. Operation is safer.

Make sure you figure the price of the punches and dies into your budget. You could spend twice the purchase price for tooling and still not have what you need.

Also, check out the tonnage specifications on the brake. It is rated 60 ton, but that is not 60 ton point load. Without seeing the directions for the machine, that 60 ton requires at least half the bed length.

You also need to check straightness of the upper and lower holders to make sure a previous owner didn't overload it.

Gentlemen,
Thank you so much. I have learned a lot in short order. That makes me feel good that it could be as simple as needing a new clutch disc. I was worried about the whole gear issue. So, let me get this straight, there are two GIANT gears on each side correct? So when I go look at this machine, it isn't unreasonable to ask the seller to get access to the gears and give them both a good shake? I thought when he said "stuck," I was thinking the motor OR those huge gears are screwed up. I didn't push the issue too much. What do you guys feel is a good price to offer him for this? I originally offered him $2500 and because it is stuck, he came back at $2000. Would I insult him if I offered him $1500? That is getting close to scrap price, which I feel is fair. I'd rather have them fix it properly and give them $2500, that way I know it works before I ever leave. Thanks again guys!
Andy

For what's its worth, check out the entire drive train of the press.
Clutch, motor or clutch linkage no big deal, any damage in the gear train, bull gears upper die frame adjustment screws or upper die guides you may want to walk away as things like the gears are going to be astronomical in cost.

A little update... I was having a hard time getting ahold the salesman to ask him questions so I called the mechanic of the company and talked to him. He said the brake is stuck all the way around. He said the motor is stuck, clutch is stuck, press is stuck. He said it sat outside for a few years and that didn't do it any good. Do you guys think I could go through this and clean things up and get it working again? I'm somewhat mechanically inclined and think i could go through it. I would have to get it for scrap price or close to it. Do you think I'm crazy? It might be a cheap way to get into a press and I have way more time then money. Thanks guys.
Andy

If it still has the dies(there probably rusted all to hell if there still there)This would be a tough one.
Motor could be rebuilt, clutch could be rebuilt. What would concern me most is why it stuck in the first place and then got placed outside for years. There is most likely an underlying problem that took this old gal out of service years ago. If you really still want to go down this road proceed with extreme caution.
Once again check out the gears and all drive train, any problems with the gears walk away....
If you really want this press my best advise is to offer NO more then current scrap price, and that price would reflect the price paid at the scrap yard as it would still have to get there to be scraped, and you would be saving them from having to get it there. It would seem they have no intent of repairing it.

Really not worth it.

You might do a little research on scrap prices there. That thing has a negative scrap value. It's worth about $300 on the scales. If you will haul it in for $300 you could get that in return!

Press brakes are awesome, but decent ones are pretty important to doing decent work.

Gentlemen,
Thank you for your time. I am taking all of this into consideration. I'm a school teacher so I have my summers off so this may be a decent project for the summer for me. I have yet to see it. I just have a picture of it which I posted above. I am going to look it over next week. Tell me, how complicated are one of these presses? I'm guessing not very. You have the motor and the large gears and flywheel. Those would likely be easily accessed. The only thing I'm not sure on is where the ram adjusts up/down. Those threads will turn and lower or raise the ram to the desired height. I would likely disassemble this for cleaning/inspection. Has anyone ever done this? Who knows, this machine might be junk but based on the picture, it doesn't look too bad. Some oil leaks but that doesn't bother me. I'm hoping when I ask the dealer to buy it for scrap price he doesn't get pissed. The way I look at it, I am saving them hauling it to the scrapyard by taking it off their hands. Thanks guys. You are awesome!
Andy

It sounds like you are dead set on buying this brake. Don't let us stand in your way.

But keep in mind even in working condition the thing is obsolete. There is a reason it was put outside, namely the floor space in the building was worth more than the brake back when the brake was still in operating condition. And this is not a machine that favors the novice or to doing one off parts.

Do you own the necessary rigging equipment to fetch, move, and spot the brake in your own shop? Do you have the equipment to lift the various parts when you disassemble them? Nothing on this machine is light. With the exception of the bolt and nuts everything will require lifting equipment. Do you have the necessary 3 phase power already installed, or will you need an electrician and a phase converter?

If you want to make short run parts and one-off parts of various thicknesses you need to look at apron brakes, specifically box and pan brakes for even more flexibility. A 8' 12 gauge brake will be in the capacity range of an 80 ton press brake. There generally is nothing else to buy in terms of punches and dies. With just an easy adjustment you can change from 28 gauge to 12 gauge. Yes, it will be expensive, $4,000 to $6,000, possibly more. But if you change your mind and take your shop in a different direction it will be easily sold and, if bought right, 80+% of your initial investment will be recovered. The resale value is opposed to the mechanical press brake that even in running condition has little value.

Gbent, I guess it does sound like I am dead set on buying this press. I'm not sure if I am, I'm trying to justify still buying it even though it is not in working condition. I called Dries and Krump and this press, according to them, weighs 8,000. I have a trailer that will haul it. I have plenty of chains/straps to secure it for the ride home (1 hour). I have a forklift that will lift it off of my trailer at my dads shop. I may strip some of the press down there and bring it to my shop. I have a forklift that will lift 6,000 lbs. so I will move the majority of it and assemble it in my shop. I am in the process of getting a phase converter as well. I was going to put a vfd on it but I have some other equipment that is three phase as well so I will get a rotary phase converter. I understand that this machine is obsolete. It is also the reason I can afford it. I have a hobby shop and I have been doing some welding out of it and been selling a few things I have made. I have made outdoor benches and firepits but have to use another brake. I would like to do it all in house. I am on a budget with this machine and if I can get it cheap, all the better. I wish it was in full working order and I would have no problem paying $2500 for it. If I can get it for $500-$600 I have some money leftover for repairs/parts, etc... I appreciate the insight to look the press over, especially the innards of the machine.

I have looked and looked and I can't find anywhere where someone has taken one of these presses apart. I don't even know how much of what the mechanic said about the press. He said he wired it up and the motor is stuck. If the motor is stuck, I don't know how he knows that everything else is stuck too. I've tried researching about taking one apart but can't find anything. My thoughts are if I can get it for around scrap price, I could fix/replace the motor and work my way through the press to get it operational once again. For what I am doing in my shop, my work is for simple projects off of my plasma table. I can't justify the high cost of a hydraulic press at this time. Worst case, I start selling some more items and upgrade in the future.
Andy

That's a lot of money and time to flush down the toilet.

Maybe buy this: Di-ACRO 35 Ton Press Brake | eBay

or this: Di-Acro press brake shop press 4 foot

What kind of brake are you using now?

Garwood, I am using an Iroquois hyd. press brake. I just don't like having to ask the guy to keep using it. Don't want to wear out my welcome. I thought about making my own press brake using the Iroquois design. It is simple but it will probably cost $5000-$6000. With the few jobs I've had, I don't know if I can justify spending that much, yet. I need to bend between 4-5 feet of 11 GA so a 35 ton press is getting kind of weak and the four footer might not be enough length. The price is right on both of those though.

Hey Guys,
I went to check out the Chicago press brake today. I was told that it was stuck and damned near headed to the scrapyard. I am a bit of an optimist and had to see it for myself. When I saw the brake, I was pleasantly surprised. I had been told it sat outside for a few years. I couldn't really tell. There wasn't much rust on the machine, if any. Everything was greased up very well on any moving part. The only thing I noticed that showed that it had been outside was the little oiler that you press before you use the machine and it oils the vital components. That had water and oil in it but it wasn't plumbed so when pressed, oil/water would spray out. I checked all of the gears over and everything looked good and felt very tight. I gave the flywheel a hell of a jerk and broke the ram loose. It wasn't stuck after all! When I moved the flywheel in either direction, the ram would smoothly go up/down. I talked to the owner and offered him $1200 and he was squaking pretty good. I settled on $1500 with him and went on about my day. I'll probably pick it up sometime in the next couple of weeks. I have a few questions:
1. The mechanic told me the motor is stuck. It is a three phase, 3 HP motor. What would you guys do? Have a motor shop go through the motor or just buy a new single phase 3HP motor. This brake has a reverse feature on it and I'd likely lose it if I used a single phase motor.
2. Has anyone ever hauled one of these things. It seems like it may be a nightmare. It's 10' long, 8' tall and 3' wide. It has Got to be super top heavy. Should I be too worried about tipping it over on the way home? I have an hour drive and plan to take whatever back roads I can and take it slow. Thanks for your help guys.
Andy

Glad to hear to the brake isn't as bad as first thought.

As far as the motor is concerned, I'd remove it from the brake, take the end bells off, and have a look inside. Unless it's been severely damaged by water or overheated, it can likely be put back to use with some new bearings. Take it apart and gently clean the entire motor with soap and water (inside and out), and put some new bearings in it.

I do this to every machine I fix up, even if the motor is working. They're usually full of gunk inside, and if they've been greased at all, they've been over-greased, so it's good to get all that cleaned out. Bearings aren't very expensive on most smaller motors, so while I've got it apart I just put a new set in for good measure.

Here's a 3hp GE taking a bath:

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Looks like you may have got your self a deal. I hope it came with some dies.
A new set of dies can cost more then the press.
If you have 3 phase power then by all means either rebuild or replace the brake drive with a 3 phase motor.
The reverse feature is something that can be very useful.
Another possible concern is if the machine is equipped with a motorized ram and tilting, you will need to be able to operate that motor both directions, not sure if your machine is equipped with that as it was a option.
Moving it...I sold one of our old Versons 8 foot 90 ton press brakes that we had retired a few months ago.
The fellow that bought it shows up with a half ton pick up pulling a regular duty 2 axle car trailer.
My Fork lift guy came and got me and said he was afraid of crushing the guys trailer.
After explaining our concerns to the buyer about the possible damage to his truck/trailer as well as the legal ramifications about axle weights, brakes, safety etc, he was just hell bent on moving this thing himself.
He was going to stay on the back roads and go very slow. I again shared my concerns but he was dead set.
Sooo our Caterpillar 20,000 lb forklift lowered the press onto his trailer, amazingly enough even though the leaf springs flattened out and the axles tubes pressed onto the trailer frame it sat there with the load on it.
The trucks front end looked to the sky as the rear suspension bottomed out.
I asked the buyer again at this point would he like to reconsider trying to haul it himself and he just waved us off, I will make it he said ...
Well he made it about a quarter mile before the tires went on the trailer taking some of the rims with them.
He ended up hiring a equipment hauler, I sent my fork lift over to reload the press and what my fork lift guy said was a severely damaged trailer as well.