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cnc press brake vs cnc folding (box/ pan) machine

davesharps

Plastic
Joined
Mar 4, 2015
Hey All,
So i'm looking to get one of two machines, either a cnc press brake or a cnc folder (box/pan). As I've been sifting through the internet I've found a ton of info on cnc press brakes, but next to nothing on the folding machines.

The main reason why I am considering a folding machine a bit over a press brake is that I'm working on some very long components (10ft ish) that have a 1in flange on each end, and unless I'm missing something my understanding is a press brake will have lift up that entire 10ft length unsupported into the air which to me sounds like a very big safety hazard. A folding machine would keep the entire length stable and supported only needing to bend that small end.

However, some of the other sheet metal components I'm doing are a good deal smaller, one piece has a bend that's about a 20-30 degree angle, and I just want to be sure that a cnc folder would be able to do that kind of job.

So am I crazy in thinking that a folder would be ideal for my applications?

Additionally does anyone have any experience using a Cidan machine ideally their Forma 30 or a RAS cnc folding machine?

Thanks for your help!
 
The Cidan is what we used to call a power leaf brake- that is, a CNC version of an old hand operated leaf brake. And, its true, the sheet behind the clamping beam will stay flat, and only the part of the sheet in front moves up. So it does mean less of the sheet is swinging thru the air. But it also limits your possibilities, unless you go with one of the higher end machines that is actually designed from the ground up to be a folder, rather than just putting power to the movement of the lower leaf of a leaf brake.
If you are talking about something like the Pro model- Pro
then, yes, you get similar flexibility as a press brake- but, in a comparison of capacity, there is no question you will be paying more for that. There are thousands of used press brakes out there, and that means more parts, cheaper prices on used and new machines, and more repair availability. If you really NEED a folder, get one, but just be aware you will be paying a premium for that. They are very cool. The europeans, who consistently pay more for good machinery (unlike the american companies that keep the chinese machine tools going) have been switching to folders for a couple decades now. But they pay to play.

brief article here, written by a sales rep-

Know when to fold 'em - The Fabricator
 
I would call any major CNC press brake manufacturer. Trumpf or Amada or Cinci. You can get folding type tooling for a press brake.
 
They both have pluses and minuses. We use to have a ras folder, it was great for 10' long parts one guy could make the parts. On the pressbrake it did take 2 guys. I will say our ras machine was nothing but a headache, always had issues. Ras is about an hour from us and would always drag feet on service. I heard cidan was the same way and again they are an hour from us.

If you aren't doing super heavy gauge stuff you could always look into sheet followers. they will help support the sheet from the flat stage and then when you bend it, it will go up the material. Here is a link to some followers. It was just a quick google search. Sheet Follower - YouTube.
 
Yes the end goes up, but any decent modern cnc break you can drop the ram travel speed so the far off 10' away end raises at a safe speed. That said, any press brake operator has to kinda consider this stuff, its very easy to bend say a channel and have it come up less than a fingers thickness of the punch holder hence serious amputation risks abound!! generally its a 2 person job for stuff like this, the safety requirments are not too hard to meet with some common sense and care.
 
15 years ago I ran a roper Whitney apron brake that was only rated to 16ga steel. We mostly did roofing materials mostly aluminum and copper. It still is a great operating machine. Very solidly built and 5x better than anything else I have used. I have never used a ras. Now I own a large press brake. There are advantages to both and some negatives. I have bent 6'x12' pieces of stainless diamond plate with 11'8" up on one side. It's easy to do with experience but would be way easier on an apron brake.

I prefer the press brake but everything has its place.

Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk
 
I just bought a 240 ton press brake and have a Dreis & Krump apron brake, the one reason I bought the press brake is that I need to make channels that have an additional bend on the legs and I can get all the bends except for one which requires me to find someone with a press brake... by the way, my 10' x 3/16" apron brake is for sale, it has power clamping and power folding... The first $ 9,500.00 gets it.
 
In my 36 years of Sheet Metal Fab I have found 1 thing that rings consistently: You can bend almost anything in a Press Brake and some things in a Panel Bender.

About every 3-5 years I bring in the Panel Formers to take a look at what we do in our 27 Press Brakes. Sales guy and an applications engineer. And typically they can do some stuff but not all. But they are getting closer as the Panel Forming Technology changes and we look art our work differently.

I have Cidan coming in on July 17th to take a look again. I would love to invest in a Panel Bender but I need to make sure the ROI is there.

See if anyone has a Panel Bender in your area you can bring some samples of your parts with to try. We did this through one of our Machine Tool Suppliers last time we were looking at Panel Benders.
 
Hi guys, I also have something to offer on this topic!

This is my pride, and I have made it by myself: https://dinamicline.com/cnc-bending-machine.php

Machine specifications:

Type: CNC
Length: 8000mm
Width: 1300mm
Space requirements: (1900 x 1650 x 8800)
Metal sheet bending thickness: 0.7mm
Bending angle: 136 stepeni
Machine weight: 3t
Power requirements: 3kw/16A
Motor power: 2,2 kw
Opening width: 105mm
Insertion depth: 1250mm

Please, if you have any questions about the machine, ask me, I would love to answer!

Best regards! :)
 
Hi guys, I also have something to offer on this topic!

This is my pride, and I have made it by myself: https://dinamicline.com/cnc-bending-machine.php

Machine specifications:

Type: CNC
Length: 8000mm
Width: 1300mm
Space requirements: (1900 x 1650 x 8800)
Metal sheet bending thickness: 0.7mm
Bending angle: 136 stepeni
Machine weight: 3t
Power requirements: 3kw/16A
Motor power: 2,2 kw
Opening width: 105mm
Insertion depth: 1250mm

Please, if you have any questions about the machine, ask me, I would love to answer!

Best regards! :)

I just watched your YouTube videos. That is a beautiful machine !!!!
 
I was at an auction recently and they had an RAS folder. I know someone who worked there and they said it was nothing but problems.

It as advertised as having a bad back gauge. It went for around $4k and the tooling, sold separately, went for more than that.
 








 
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