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Geka Hydrocrop 50.... dead

TFPace

Stainless
Joined
Oct 11, 2003
Location
Pinnacle, NC USA
My trusty GEKA ironworker has earned her keep. I spoke with COMEQ in Baltimore this morning and learned that my 1983 vintage machine is obsolete. Punching light material, i.e. 1/4" mild steel is OK but when I try to punch 1/2 plate and 1" round holes the machine just struggles. Plenty of fluid, etc. It's been years since I cleaned the filter but I doubt that's the problem. When the fluid gets hot the machine just stops. Have any of you guys rebuilt your Geka's or just bought new. New just make more sense to me. It looks like there are several Asian copies of the Geka. Thanks, Tom
 
I know 2 companies around that have new gekas and are not happy with them at all. They are companies who have always bought expensive machines.

They both say the problems are "American machinery with stupid asian problems"

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My trusty GEKA ironworker has earned her keep. I spoke with COMEQ in Baltimore this morning and learned that my 1983 vintage machine is obsolete. Punching light material, i.e. 1/4" mild steel is OK but when I try to punch 1/2 plate and 1" round holes the machine just struggles. Plenty of fluid, etc. It's been years since I cleaned the filter but I doubt that's the problem. When the fluid gets hot the machine just stops. Have any of you guys rebuilt your Geka's or just bought new. New just make more sense to me. It looks like there are several Asian copies of the Geka. Thanks, Tom

It sounds like the relief valve and especially the seat is worn. Replace the relief valve and performance should return to normal.
 
Lots of shops that specialize in doing hydraulics repair... pull of the ram and pump and send em out, won't have to worry for another decade.
 
It sounds like the relief valve and especially the seat is worn. Replace the relief valve and performance should return to normal.
That's encouraging. For this machine to have been such a great performer and then just stop makes me hope it's not shot after all.

We're going to pull the pump unit out tomorrow and explore a little.

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Lots of shops that specialize in doing hydraulics repair... pull of the ram and pump and send em out, won't have to worry for another decade.
Both rams are dry and leak free. I'm hoping the pickup screen may be blocked.

After letting it cool down to room temp I attempted to punch some more. It would even complete a 5/8" hole through 1/2" mild steel.


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Is there any kind of pressure gauge? What is the working pressure supposed to be?

ewlsey,

Yes there's a gauge. It's building to 100 bar / 1450 p.s.i. the drops of course after the cut/punch is complete.
I just emailed Geka is Spain and am hoping to hear back after I get up tomorrow morning ;)

As I think I previously mentioned, after I let the oil cool back down I filled the tank and it wouldn't punch through 1/2" mild steel.

I think I can put my hands on the owners manual to get the specs. etc.
 
Both rams are dry and leak free. I'm hoping the pickup screen may be blocked.

After letting it cool down to room temp I attempted to punch some more. It would even complete a 5/8" hole through 1/2" mild steel.


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Piston seal?
 
ewlsey,

Yes there's a gauge. It's building to 100 bar / 1450 p.s.i. the drops of course after the cut/punch is complete.
I just emailed Geka is Spain and am hoping to hear back after I get up tomorrow morning ;)

As I think I previously mentioned, after I let the oil cool back down I filled the tank and it wouldn't punch through 1/2" mild steel.

I think I can put my hands on the owners manual to get the specs. etc.

Note what the difference is in pressure between cold and hot.
 
I know 2 companies around that have new gekas and are not happy with them at all. They are companies who have always bought expensive machines.

They both say the problems are "American machinery with stupid asian problems"

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That's pretty weird for a machine made in Spain
 
ewlsey,

Yes there's a gauge. It's building to 100 bar / 1450 p.s.i. the drops of course after the cut/punch is complete.
I just emailed Geka is Spain and am hoping to hear back after I get up tomorrow morning ;)

As I think I previously mentioned, after I let the oil cool back down I filled the tank and it wouldn't punch through 1/2" mild steel.

I think I can put my hands on the owners manual to get the specs. etc.
So the machine is producing 95 bar on each cylinder. The operating pressure is normally 250 bar [emoji15] .
Having been told that parts are non existent I guess I'll start hunting for a direct drive replacement pump.

Stay tuned.

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Check hot running oil pressure, there is a pressure relief valve in this system if not built into the control valve then mounted remotely sounds as if the relief is popping off or just internally leaking not allowing full system pressure.
Another area to look at if relief valve checks out is the cylinders them self's.
One could be internally leaking allowing high pressure oil to bypass the piston on to the return cycle side of the piston.
This is a closed center hydraulic system, you should see working pressure at the pump, generally we tap in a pressure/flowmeter to test the system health, however aside from flow you should see working pressure.
Always check your filters, and the pumps pick up screen, more then once a problem has been the pick up screen.
 
Check hot running oil pressure, there is a pressure relief valve in this system if not built into the control valve then mounted remotely sounds as if the relief is popping off or just internally leaking not allowing full system pressure.
Another area to look at if relief valve checks out is the cylinders them self's.
One could be internally leaking allowing high pressure oil to bypass the piston on to the return cycle side of the piston.
This is a closed center hydraulic system, you should see working pressure at the pump, generally we tap in a pressure/flowmeter to test the system health, however aside from flow you should see working pressure.
Always check your filters, and the pumps pick up screen, more then once a problem has been the pick up screen.
Here's what we found from the very dirty screen.

I'm going to drain the oil and see what mess is in the sump.
540a0ef921dcd1a0715b7c5838da8ab1.jpg
9d720eeafe1f3636218b0851886c2fe1.jpg
e1b0d17e0120d90f7bf59aa5b1e5bfca.jpg
c6bb1932b2992ac6a1adacf630cc320a.jpg
ac58d055c9a4760d2275d5267eb7e2ce.jpg


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seems like while it may be a bit of work to find available parts and interface them, this is just a hydraulic problem. And even, worst case, you need a new pump, its still a lot cheaper than a new ironworker.
Even scotchmans and edwards have gotten expensive.
and neither is a Geka.

I, too, am perplexed about the comment "american machinery with stupid asian problems"- since nothing on the new, or old, Geka's is american, or, most likely, asian.
Mine is around 15 years old now, no problems ever beyond a loose bolt on the hydraulic throw stop bar. tightened that up, and it works as new.

Gekas are, in my opinion, the best small shop ironworker for an all around fab shop.
I think the older Mubeas and Peddinghouse ironworkers may have been built sturdier, but are not as user friendly or easy to get accurate results from. And for really big repetitive work, nothing beats a 50 or 80 year old mechanical, like a big buffalo or hill acme- but they are beasts, with no provision for gaging, just lots of brute force.
If what you need is to shear hundreds of pieces of 6" angle every day, sure, a Buffalo no. 2 1/2 is a good choice.
but if you are doing all different fab shop work, the Geka is my choice.

And yours is certainly worth fixing. heck- an equivalent size Edwards is around 18grand, and a Geka is way better than an Edwards.
 
seems like while it may be a bit of work to find available parts and interface them, this is just a hydraulic problem. And even, worst case, you need a new pump, its still a lot cheaper than a new ironworker.
Even scotchmans and edwards have gotten expensive.
and neither is a Geka.

I, too, am perplexed about the comment "american machinery with stupid asian problems"- since nothing on the new, or old, Geka's is american, or, most likely, asian.
Mine is around 15 years old now, no problems ever beyond a loose bolt on the hydraulic throw stop bar. tightened that up, and it works as new.

Gekas are, in my opinion, the best small shop ironworker for an all around fab shop.
I think the older Mubeas and Peddinghouse ironworkers may have been built sturdier, but are not as user friendly or easy to get accurate results from. And for really big repetitive work, nothing beats a 50 or 80 year old mechanical, like a big buffalo or hill acme- but they are beasts, with no provision for gaging, just lots of brute force.
If what you need is to shear hundreds of pieces of 6" angle every day, sure, a Buffalo no. 2 1/2 is a good choice.
but if you are doing all different fab shop work, the Geka is my choice.

And yours is certainly worth fixing. heck- an equivalent size Edwards is around 18grand, and a Geka is way better than an Edwards.

Ries,

Thanks for the reply. We're going to put it back together in the morning and see what a cleaned screen will do. I fully agree on the pump issue. For the performance to have fallen flat makes me hope the flow being hampered by the restricted flow. As Danagear mentioned the relief valves may be my problem. I'm learning first hand that I am not a hydraulic tech. But we certainly do have some on this forum :) Thank goodness !!!!!

I have found a new Marzocchi pump too. Marzoochi is a big player in the pump business here in N.A. so that's great news.
I'm going to put everything back together tomorrow and see what the cleaned up screen does and adjust the relief valve too.
Otherwise I'll be ordering a new pump ASAP.
 
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The filter/screen was the problem all along. After cleaning all crap off the screen the pump sounds like a new one.
I'm getting 250 bar now.

Thanks for all the guidance everyone.


Tom
5e5f1a56537a96b6151e66e80d5771c2.jpg


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I am always amazed how, after doing all kinds of troubleshooting, the problem was the stupid small one.
Certainly, there are times when the really expensive circuit board pukes, but with my machines, much more often, its a loose connection, a wire that shorted to ground, a stripped screw, or something else that is cheap and easy to fix, once you find it.
 
I can't even begin to list how many times we seen plugged suction screens/filters stop hydraulic systems in there tracks.


DG,

This a machine that never sees any attention whatsoever, I've always expected it to work flawlessly. So much for a PM schedule. Heck, its strained for sometime. The pump is so quiet now.

By the time it plugs up again I'll be dead. :D

Thanks again for your help.

Tom
 








 
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