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Help needed designing HydroForm press

CPM2014

Cast Iron
Joined
Apr 18, 2014
Location
Austin,TX
I am looking for information on both the design of Hydroforming presses as well as technical info on form making as well as trade tips for Process. I am talking about the press type like the Cincinnati HydroForms.

Anyone know the specifics on rubber diaphragm used? Obviously needs a high amount of stretch.

I am wanting to make fuel and oil tanks from free 1100 aluminum.

Thanks for the help!!
 
In particular I’m really curious how to attach the rubber pressure pad and how to keep it from leaking under some 15000psi? The concept seams simple and I’m guessing the ability to succeed is in these sorts of not so small details. Does anyone have a hydroform manual that might show some of the sealing flanges and parts?
 
I think you'll need to show what sort of drawings you have of your idea so far. As it reads it seems too vague to provide usable input on.

Also, people are way faster to respond when they see something not safe, which will probably be the case with this 15000 psi contraption, so that may help get some people to contribute.
 
I am looking for information on both the design of Hydroforming presses as well as technical info on form making as well as trade tips for Process. ......
...........
I am wanting to make fuel and oil tanks from free 1100 aluminum.

.....

IOW-from the above--this appears to be another pipe dream that can see contributors waste good time
and effort on responses to the OP--that apparently has neither the time/effort/capital to pursue this
if it can't be dun-quick/cheap and dirty.
 
What do you base this off of? Since I own a CNC machine shop, and have built 12 process machines for proprietary processing to date, I think my intentions are real.

Strostkovy. My inquiry is lacking specifics because that is precisely what I'm looking for. 15k psi is what Cincinnati used for their Hydroform machine. I doubt that I would need anywhere near that as I won't be processing steels or stainless. I have a 3k pump and a 10k pump so that I what I would start with.
 
You need to be looking at the polyurethanes, its common to use a lose some what sacrificial buffer pad too between the metal and the pressure side diaphragm to deal with those edges, also common to not use oil as the working fluid! Large - deep profiles will often have both shaped mats and diaphragms.

Pressure needed is directly dependant on what your doing with regard to thickness, not just material, if you want to do 3mm aluminum, its going to be able to do 1mm steel etc, hence theres some cross over. Pressure also varies greatly with the shape your trying to make sharper details need more pressure theres no free ride there.

Key thing to remember, a press in the hydro-forming world will often have a active bed in the hundred of square inches range, at 10Kpsi, ie 5 tons a square inch your into some seriously large structures very very very fast to contain the total generated forces safely.

Free forming does not work as well as most people think it does, metal has grain and how it stretches is not like a perfect rubbery skin but i know a lot of the aircraft stuff simply uses hard wood tooling, the tooling only has to support the working force and really need not be all the clever.
 
Machinery magazine, late 1960's had a couple of good articles on it.

Google books has them for free reading IIRC
 
You need to be looking at the polyurethanes, its common to use a lose some what sacrificial buffer pad too between the metal and the pressure side diaphragm to deal with those edges, also common to not use oil as the working fluid! Large - deep profiles will often have both shaped mats and diaphragms.

Pressure needed is directly dependant on what your doing with regard to thickness, not just material, if you want to do 3mm aluminum, its going to be able to do 1mm steel etc, hence theres some cross over. Pressure also varies greatly with the shape your trying to make sharper details need more pressure theres no free ride there.

Key thing to remember, a press in the hydro-forming world will often have a active bed in the hundred of square inches range, at 10Kpsi, ie 5 tons a square inch your into some seriously large structures very very very fast to contain the total generated forces safely.

Free forming does not work as well as most people think it does, metal has grain and how it stretches is not like a perfect rubbery skin but i know a lot of the aircraft stuff simply uses hard wood tooling, the tooling only has to support the working force and really need not be all the clever.

Thank you for taking the time to respond!
I would like to clarify a little, if I can, my reason for inquiring about this. I am trying to see if it is realistic to build a machine based with the same principles as the HydroForms, but simplified in action and reduce the size and mass due to reducing the needed capability.

I have a close friend and client that is very deep into the vintage motorcycle scene and this Press and its ability to make “clean” parts, was the topic of conversation.

Back to specs. The largest part that this would see would be a volume of 1200sqin (6x8x26). Materials used back in the day were either 1100 or 2024T0.

Please do not misunderstand, I am not looking to do anything dangerous and yes, I know the dangers of hydraulics.

One of the biggest things I can’t find info on, and the reason for wanting to get ahold of a cutaway schetch or maintenance manual is to see how the diaphragm attachment and hydraulic fluid interface works.

I found this company
(Hydroforming Rubber | Hydroform Rubber Wear Pads). They sell diaphragms as well as pads and they may also be a source for more info too.

Thanks guys!
 








 
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