Miller Syncrowave 180 SD stick welding does not work

kenton · Mar 23, 2018

I'm storing/borrowing my brother in laws Miller Syncrowave 180 SD and I'm having issues trying to stick weld with it. It seems to TIG weld just fine but when I try to stick weld with it I can't even get a arc started.
I have tried 1/8 6011 on both AC and DC+ starting at 60 amps(I assume the dial is calibrated in amps) and worked up to 130 amps with no luck establishing an arc. All I could get it to do is leave burn marks where it would spark and immediately go out. The Lincoln tombstone/buzzbox had no trouble starting an arc at 60 amps with the same rod. This wasn't cleanest steel but it wasn't out of line for stick welding.
I also tried 1/16 6010 set on DC+ with the same out come. I haven't dug into this too deep but wanted to see if anyone else has experienced this issue and what the solution was.

Newman109 · Mar 23, 2018

This is just a guess but I would check the ground cable and ground connection. I had the exact same condition at one point with the stick function on my Miler Syncrowave 200. It was a poor connection on a rusty weld table. A little wiggling and all was well.

DMF_TomB · Mar 23, 2018

kenton said:
I'm storing/borrowing my brother in laws Miller Syncrowave 180 SD and I'm having issues trying to stick weld with it. It seems to TIG weld just fine but when I try to stick weld with it I can't even get a arc started.
I have tried 1/8 6011 on both AC and DC+ starting at 60 amps(I assume the dial is calibrated in amps) and worked up to 130 amps with no luck establishing an arc. All I could get it to do is leave burn marks where it would spark and immediately go out. The Lincoln tombstone/buzzbox had no trouble starting an arc at 60 amps with the same rod. This wasn't cleanest steel but it wasn't out of line for stick welding.
I also tried 1/16 6010 set on DC+ with the same out come. I haven't dug into this too deep but wanted to see if anyone else has experienced this issue and what the solution was.

bad connection can give low voltage
.
typically 1/8 6011 you run at 90 to 120 amps. many machines the amp knob can be out of calibration

kenton · Mar 23, 2018

I had just been TIG welding with the same ground. When I was having issues stick welding I moved the ground from the table to a spot I cleaned on the work piece. I guess I should double check the cables to be safe.

jamscal · Mar 23, 2018

Get tig collet sized for stick electrode.

Turn off gas.

Use tig rig to stick weld.

It will work (or not) and further narrow down the problem

DDoug · Mar 23, 2018

Did you forget to switch off the remote current control (footpedal) ?

kenton · Mar 23, 2018

I don't believe their is a switch for that the panel, switching the welding method button from tig to stick changes that I think. I will have to find a manual online to see if their is a hidden function that someone may have activated to make it so you could stick weld with the foot pedal.

Which seems like an interesting idea. :scratchchin:

DDoug · Mar 24, 2018

Set a brick on the foot pedal and report back.....

rons · Mar 24, 2018

digger doug said:
Set a brick on the foot pedal and report back.....

Miller 180 SD Manual (OM-360) page 14:

The stick wled configuration does not use a foot pedal.

Check electrode holder and connection. Otherwise time to remove machine cover. Routine maintenance sections says to blow out the inside, adjust points, etc. How many times has that ever been done!

DDoug · Mar 24, 2018

rons said:
Miller 180 SD Manual (OM-360) page 14:

The stick wled configuration does not use a foot pedal.

View attachment 224094

Check electrode holder and connection. Otherwise time to remove machine cover. Routine maintenance sections says to blow out the inside, adjust points, etc. How many times has that ever been done!

I understand that, however, how is the footpedal being unhooked ?

With a remote/local panel switch ?
With a switch linked inside with the tig/stick switch ?
With a blank plug when the footpedal is removed (and jumper is inside the
blank cap to complete the circuit) ?

And if it's any of these (or some new type) is is working properly ?

So try the brick on the pedal anyhow......

rons · Mar 24, 2018

digger doug said:
I understand that, however, how is the footpedal being unhooked ?

It's plain and simple. The five pin Amp connector has a twist lock circular housing. Pulling on the pin body while unscrewing the twist lock. Then I usually say a small prayer and take a sip of Holy water...

DDoug · Mar 24, 2018

rons said:
It's plain and simple. The five pin Amp connector has a twist lock circular housing. Pulling on the pin body while unscrewing the twist lock. Then I usually say a small prayer and take a sip of Holy water...

And did the OP do this ?

Is it required ? or can the pedal be left hooked up ?

And why would points need adjusted for stick welding output problems ?

Newman109 · Mar 24, 2018

The foot pedal has nothing to do with the stick function. The points have nothing to do with the stick function.

There is something more going on. I now suspect a bad board or a difficulty in the capacitor bank inside the case. If it's a board, it's $$$$$.

rons · Mar 24, 2018

digger doug said:
And did the OP do this ?

Is it required ? or can the pedal be left hooked up ?

And why would points need adjusted for stick welding output problems ?

Do you own this particular type foot pedal? I do. It is used on Miller Econotig, 180, 250, 350 machines and probably many more.

The manual says to remove it. Why question it?

From a circuit point of view, it is just a potentiometer that rotates as the pedal is pressed. Why experiment, follow the manual. The main handle bar switch probably removes the foot pedal connection from the internal circuits. I could care less and would care even less to experiment.

If an examination for his problem requires removing the case then why not blow out the dust first. There is going to be a thick layer of dust and dirt over everything. It will have to be blown away to see anything. As long as the cover is off why not adjust the points, they probably were never adjusted in many years.

Assuming that the stick holder/cable is 100% might be a mistake. Inspect that first. Most likely the internals are messed up.

Let Newman109 take over, he owns a 180.

DMF_TomB · Mar 25, 2018

i had welding machine where it blew a little 1/10 amp fuse.
.
i was told those fuses which are cheap usually save big expensive printed circuit boards from burning out
.
welding store said they charge like $100. to look at machine and i might want to check the fuses myself before bringing it in and spending over $100. for repairs
.
i found blown fuse and changed it i believe it was like $1.50 for 5 fuses

kenton · Mar 25, 2018

Turns out rons was on to something.

I got a chance to play with it today and putting the stick electrode in the tig collet and it welded great, it was kind of cool to hold the electrode above the work piece, press the pedal and have the high frequency start the arc for me. So I attached the stick stinger and left it in tig mode and that worked fine.

When I switched to stick mode I still couldn't get an arc. Just for kicks I stood on the tig pedal with it in stick mode and low and behold it worked fine. When I removed the pedal it continued to work great.

I guess the moral of the story is read the owners manual even if you have to go online to find it... and also remove the tig pedal if you aren't using it. It seems weird that switching to stick mode doesn't ignore the pedal, but what do I know,

Thanks everyone for your help and time.

DDoug · Mar 25, 2018

So you can leave the pedal connected when stick welding.

Just like every other machine I have ever used/worked on.

Brick or foot, the machine don't care.

And no need to remove covers, blow out the machine, nor adjust points.

Newman109 · Mar 25, 2018

kenton said:
Turns out rons was on to something.

I got a chance to play with it today and putting the stick electrode in the tig collet and it welded great, it was kind of cool to hold the electrode above the work piece, press the pedal and have the high frequency start the arc for me. So I attached the stick stinger and left it in tig mode and that worked fine.

When I switched to stick mode I still couldn't get an arc. Just for kicks I stood on the tig pedal with it in stick mode and low and behold it worked fine. When I removed the pedal it continued to work great.

I guess the moral of the story is read the owners manual even if you have to go online to find it... and also remove the tig pedal if you aren't using it. It seems weird that switching to stick mode doesn't ignore the pedal, but what do I know,

Thanks everyone for your help and time.

Glad you could figure something out. FYI, my Syncrowave 200 works in stick mode without removing the foot pedal. If your 180 works with the foot pedal out in stick mode, it's all good.

Matt_Maguire · Mar 25, 2018

kenton said:
Turns out rons was on to something.

It seems weird that switching to stick mode doesn't ignore the pedal, but what do I know,

Thanks everyone for your help and time.

Glad you got it working, IIRC the pedal could stay in the machine when you flipped the switch???

Since the 70’s all the tranny tig makers started putting in circuitry that would take the TIG (steep V/A curve) slope & try to mimic a constant power slope (drooping). That’s not like CV, it’s just a CC recipe that will boost volts when arc voltage drops below a certain point. So where that switch was would make a difference if you buried the rod looking for hard penetration.

Now I don’t think anyone builds a transformer TIG… Anyway some background from millerwelds → Selecting a Constant Current (CC) DC Welder for Training Purposes - MillerWelds

Good luck,
Matt

kenton · Mar 25, 2018

Matt_Maguire said:
Glad you got it working, IIRC the pedal could stay in the machine when you flipped the switch???

Since the 70’s all the tranny tig makers started putting in circuitry that would take the TIG (steep V/A curve) slope & try to mimic a constant power slope (drooping). That’s not like CV, it’s just a CC recipe that will boost volts when arc voltage drops below a certain point. So where that switch was would make a difference if you buried the rod looking for hard penetration.

Now I don’t think anyone builds a transformer TIG… Anyway some background from millerwelds → Selecting a Constant Current (CC) DC Welder for Training Purposes - MillerWelds

Good luck,
Matt

I could not establish an arc while stick welding with the pedal plugged in unless I fully depressed the pedal. I can't say that is how it is supposed to work but that is how this machine is currently functioning

Thanks for the link. I really don't know much about stick welding other than what I remember from my intro class I took years ago.

Miller Syncrowave 180 SD stick welding does not work

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