Omax Waterjet

Hey Everyone!

I know I've searched through the threads comparing waterjets but looks like I'm about to pull the trigger on a Omax 5555 waterjet with a tilt-a-jet. We currently have several cnc capabilities from milling, lathe, and plasma. Adding the waterjet would help keep work we send away in house and compliment our other machining capabilities. I'd like to concentrate on more precise batch jobs and not larger jobs. We are a job shop and different work rotates in and out of the shop on a regular basis. Just seeing how others have liked their Omax tables. I looked into flow but there are so many mixed reviews. Thanks for any additional info.

KMW FABRICATION said:

Hey Everyone!

I know I've searched through the threads comparing waterjets but looks like I'm about to pull the trigger on a Omax 5555 waterjet with a tilt-a-jet. We currently have several cnc capabilities from milling, lathe, and plasma. Adding the waterjet would help keep work we send away in house and compliment our other machining capabilities. I'd like to concentrate on more precise batch jobs and not larger jobs. We are a job shop and different work rotates in and out of the shop on a regular basis. Just seeing how others have liked their Omax tables. I looked into flow but there are so many mixed reviews. Thanks for any additional info.

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I know a guy that has 4 Omax WJs and loves them. An R&D outfit I worked for had an Omax, It ran 8 - 10 hours a day with hardly any trouble. buy a flow and god help you when you have trouble. Worst service in the world. End of story.

moonlight machine said:

I know a guy that has 4 Omax WJs and loves them. An R&D outfit I worked for had an Omax, It ran 8 - 10 hours a day with hardly any trouble. buy a flow and god help you when you have trouble. Worst service in the world. End of story.

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Yeah that's kind of the vibe I was getting about Flow tables from what I was reading. The Omax tables do have a few bad stories themselves but doesnt seem as bad. I'm shooting for keeping the table running at least 20hrs a week in my shop so its self sufficient with an operator. I didnt want to get a big table either because I just dont want crazy big jobs coming in for it. We are catering to high end aerospace companies in our area so when I asked about table size everyone said the 5555 table would be enough for their work. One customer said he's only had one job that was bigger than what the table could handle.

I absolutely love my OMax 5555. One of the best investments I made in my home shop.

4 FN 27 said:

I absolutely love my OMax 5555. One of the best investments I made in my home shop.

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Sounds like one hell of a home shop!

I'm enough of an waterjet and Omax evangelist that there is a picture of me on their website talking about prototyping in biomedical research and engineering. And yes I will come to your job site and give a lecture on this topic when needed. But yes they really are the greatest thing, particularly when you have them in conjunction with sheet metal forming and fastening capabilities, eg a press brake, spot welder and PEM setter, and finishing such as powder coating. See Dan Gelbart's YouTube channel which pretty much describes what I'm talking about. They are also really complementary to the other prototyping tools such as regular CNC machining and 3D printing. I'd say they are even complementary to laser in they are super versatile, and then if you have a large job in materials laser is well suited to, maybe based on your waterjetted prototypes, you outsource to the guys with the whole-sheet laser machines.

Re Omax vs others, we never really did the comparison because Gelbart strongly recommended Omax at the time, but others who have done careful comparisons have said the Omax software is really good relatively speaking and it's true we have trained hundreds and hundreds of undergrad engineering students to operate the 2652 over the years. I can't speak to service as our institutional machines tend to have quite low hours, but our experience with Omax there has been fine.

4 FN 27 said:

I absolutely love my OMax 5555. One of the best investments I made in my home shop.

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Has the size of the table limited you on anything? I'm starting to get the word out that we are bringing waterjet in house so customers are sending me some RFQs.

rcoope said:

I'm enough of an waterjet and Omax evangelist that there is a picture of me on their website talking about prototyping in biomedical research and engineering. And yes I will come to your job site and give a lecture on this topic when needed. But yes they really are the greatest thing, particularly when you have them in conjunction with sheet metal forming and fastening capabilities, eg a press brake, spot welder and PEM setter, and finishing such as powder coating. See Dan Gelbart's YouTube channel which pretty much describes what I'm talking about. They are also really complementary to the other prototyping tools such as regular CNC machining and 3D printing. I'd say they are even complementary to laser in they are super versatile, and then if you have a large job in materials laser is well suited to, maybe based on your waterjetted prototypes, you outsource to the guys with the whole-sheet laser machines.

Re Omax vs others, we never really did the comparison because Gelbart strongly recommended Omax at the time, but others who have done careful comparisons have said the Omax software is really good relatively speaking and it's true we have trained hundreds and hundreds of undergrad engineering students to operate the 2652 over the years. I can't speak to service as our institutional machines tend to have quite low hours, but our experience with Omax there has been fine.

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Thank you for the response. This is exactly why I wanted to bring the waterjet in house, I currently have a 5x10 cnc plasma table and 3 cnc mills. If I could cut a non critical profile of a part on the plasma table and then fixture it on the waterjet and cut the close tolerances holes or features I think they would compliment eachother very well. The same would go for the cnc machining.

KMW FABRICATION said:

Thank you for the response. This is exactly why I wanted to bring the waterjet in house, I currently have a 5x10 cnc plasma table and 3 cnc mills. If I could cut a non critical profile of a part on the plasma table and then fixture it on the waterjet and cut the close tolerances holes or features I think they would compliment eachother very well. The same would go for the cnc machining.

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You can save massive amounts of cnc mill time with a waterjet. We used to waterjet to tap drill sizes then tap without drilling. Works a treat.

QUOTE=moonlight machine;3280483]Sounds like one hell of a home shop![/QUOTE]

It was a 35 year dream that came true...10,000 sq feet. A miniature version of our Precision Fab Shop...Press brake, Mill, Lathe, CNC Mill. I wanted to be able to do anything we do at the plant at home. For 35+ years I was at the plant for 12-18 hours a day including the weekends building things from stuff for the Shop to Racecars. Got real old having the second shift guys interrupting me all night long to answer questions. No one bothers me at the home shop...I lock the doors and my Wife doesn't even have a key.

KMW FABRICATION said:

Has the size of the table limited you on anything? I'm starting to get the word out that we are bringing waterjet in house so customers are sending me some RFQs.

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Since I run this machine in the backyard shop behind the house most everything I design and build fits or I make it fit. If I need something bigger my Brother and I own a Precision Fab Shop with 6 Lasers, 7 Turrets and 26 Press Brakes...I run it there.

I would have like to get the 60 x 120 table but I never run full sheets as most parts I make are 1 offs. And I am the only one in my shop it makes it difficult to handle sheets by myself. I take drops from the main plant home that I can carry. Makes life easy...well at least for me.

We bought a Maxiem (OMAX) 1515 (62 x 62" work envelope, 62 x 88" table) 9 years ago. It's been great. The software is awesome for what we do.

We stock mostly 48x60" sheet & plate - either half-sheets or cut from coil to our specification, about 40 different materials/alloys/sheet thicknesses, stored in pallet racking. The stock size and work envelope handles 98% of what we are asked to do, and handling half-sheets is so much easier, in part because of our location deep in a twisty warehouse.

To do again though, I still wish we'd bought the 1530, to cut 48x96 and 48x120 sheets in single setups when needed. Every month or so, I do one or another convoluted toolpath, cutting oversize material in two setups. Plate up to 88"; flexible sheet up to 120" hanging out the right end of the tank, set up and cut halfway, rotated 180 deg, aligned, and continued. On occasion, 96" stock laid on the diagonal. Some of those setups are real puzzles, but the point is, with some clever measurement and programming, the work envelope isn't a hard limit.

Toolbert said:

We bought a Maxiem (OMAX) 1515 (62 x 62" work envelope, 62 x 88" table) 9 years ago. It's been great. The software is awesome for what we do.

We stock mostly 48x60" sheet & plate - either half-sheets or cut from coil to our specification, about 40 different materials/alloys/sheet thicknesses, stored in pallet racking. The stock size and work envelope handles 98% of what we are asked to do, and handling half-sheets is so much easier, in part because of our location deep in a twisty warehouse.

To do again though, I still wish we'd bought the 1530, to cut 48x96 and 48x120 sheets in single setups when needed. Every month or so, I do one or another convoluted toolpath, cutting oversize material in two setups. Plate up to 88"; flexible sheet up to 120" hanging out the right end of the tank, set up and cut halfway, rotated 180 deg, aligned, and continued. On occasion, 96" stock laid on the diagonal. Some of those setups are real puzzles, but the point is, with some clever measurement and programming, the work envelope isn't a hard limit.

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Thanks for the feedback! I pulled the trigger and purchased the Omax 5555. I started with a small 4x4 plasma table and worked up to a 5x10 but hopefully this smaller waterjet table wont limit us to much with the type of work we do. I'm sure I'll have to rotate some larger parts and indicate off a pick up point and cut larger items eventually.

i operated and fixed a KMT powered water jet every few months a seal would go or a valve and seat and you would replace it, the machine was pretty well used full time 8 hours a day, actual cut time was less than 8 due to setups.
didn't record actual run times a day estimate 6 hours running a day, some cuts of full sheets ran overnight and jobs were 4 to 5 hours continuous cutting, with down time searching for new start place in the seconds.
Can you provide any feedback on omax running lots of hours and how often did you need to attend to the pump? to replace seals.

We have a brand new 5 axis Flow 500. You did good getting the Omax. We have run this junk for less than two months and it is currently down waiting on warranty service. I can attest to the fact that Flow has hands down the worst customer service I have ever dealt with.

welderjosh said:

We have a brand new 5 axis Flow 500. You did good getting the Omax. We have run this junk for less than two months and it is currently down waiting on warranty service. I can attest to the fact that Flow has hands down the worst customer service I have ever dealt with.

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That's exactly what I was worried about. I've spoke with people who love their flow but also get the horror stories. Seems like you can get a little more machine for the money with the flow but I want the peace of mind knowing that the machine should run and pay for itself. Plus the Omax software is killer from what I can tell when I demo the machine.

I bought a Maxiem 1530 last November after working and running a Omax for 15 years. The Omax customer support is great! I haven't had any problems of far and I do all the rebuilds and work myself. It took a long time to make up my mind to finally buy one but I knew it was going to be a Omax when I bought one!

Street said:

Can you provide any feedback on omax running lots of hours and how often did you need to attend to the pump? to replace seals.

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Coming up on 8000 pump hours. Over the long term, everything exposed to the ultra high pressure water is a consumable part - after 9 years not a single high pressure pump element, tube, fitting or nozzle component is original. With good water, the pumps are pretty reliable - support advises pre-emptive rebuilds of varying depth every 250 (seals etc.) to 2000 hours (metal components subject to fatigue) depending on the component. I've since adopted the alternate approach of running the pump wet end to destruction (~2500 hours) and then buying a complete new pump wet end ($10,000) as overall more cost-effective than replacing the wet end components piecemeal. I figure a long term maintenance budget of $8 to $10/hr. With luck, there's a couple year honeymoon before you'll need to spend any of it. Maybe more, if it's not in production use. Sounds like a lot of $ in maintenance but 8000 pump hours is a lot of revenue for a waterjet. Ours sees hard service on account of lots of on/off cycles cutting sheet metal. Someone doing long cuts in 2" steel may have a far lower maintenance cost.

i am not in the front of the machine anymore i don't work at that particular shop anymore so don't have hour intervals in front of me.
The most i have done was replace the ram seals, poppet valves, grind and lap the inlets. rarely do the inlet valves go mainly the outlets and ram seals
I think the old boss was very lucky running the KMT pump as i don't think in the time he had it any major spend, everything replaced was recorded in a book at interval hours etc
He did have to replace the flexible wip line once though.

Sounds as if the spend on the OMAX for you has been more than a KMT pump.

2500 hours say at 5 hours solid run time a day is a 500 day interval it is a longer period than the KMT pump but you have a higher spend replacing the end.
I estimate the seals go in 4 to 6 months depending, so around 900 hours, they are a simple set of seals.

All the fixing was done in house so he didn't have the cost of outside service or have to wait a long time for a service tech to come available, so his down time was minimised, the operator was the fixer so no one was standing around either.
The high pressure cylinder where the seals sat was showing signs of some pitting but was still sealing ok, in the next year to two years he will have to replace those pieces, they are a large part and no doubt would be costly.
He did pretty well out of the machine it i think was 2007 year of manufacture and his earnings by that time ( last year when i was there) would easily have covered the machines cost so the rest is just cream.
The maker was Techni, a australian firm using KMT parts such as the head, feed lines and hydraulic over water pump.

Yes 8000 hours is a lot of earning potential time, you can do a lot in a hours cut time. a typical small part for him was under 5 minutes cut time in 2mm tool steel.

The extreme end was a large full table array in 16mm aluminium running 7 hours cut time.

I have had very good success with Accustream (now Hypertherm) pumps over the years, with a number of customers getting over 3,000 hours without any required maintenance on their pumps (one went over 10,000 hours without a seal change). I was contacted a number of times by KMT but ended up staying with Accustream: price as well as for reliability and support.