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How much less electricity will an inverter welder use?

Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Location
marysville ohio
I have an Airco TIG welder, 35 years old, AC DC 460 max weld amps. It runs on 220V single phase, 103 amps at full load . It is used mostly on aluminum. I have been told that an inverter welder will use enough less power that it will pay for the up grade. I looked at a new Miller Dynasty 350 today, the thing is stupid money, I was quoted 9100.00 for the welder, cart, cooler, foot pedal and torch. How long would it take to pay for the welder with the "savings". Is there any "savings", it seems to me that it will take a certain number of BTUs to weld, will it take the same amount of electricity to create those BTUs with a transformer or with an inverter?
 
It'll use less current because it'll have a better power factor. It won't use an enormous amount less power even though it's probably more efficient. Payback time on power would be extremely long unless it was running 24/7. 50¢ per hour saving at full power if you're lucky.
 
They will use more

You will gain balance adjustment and pulse which make it worthwile though.

FLA when off balance will draw more amps for the same heat but is sweet to have.

Pf is irrelevant unless you have a smart meter
 
I was told by a Lincoln rep that inverters can payback in as little as two years. That is in a case of high prices for power and running every day in a commercial operation. Not only does it create welding current more efficiently than the transformer rectifier the inverter shuts off the cooling fan when not required. Weight is about one tenth of the old transformer units. It can sit on a shelf on the wall.
The welding current can be customized to suit your specific need. Over ten years ago I went to a pulse current workshop put on by Miller. The guy demonstrated the top of the line Aerowave. At the time it was almost 20K. They had one supplied to a local shop repairing helicopter transmissions. Repairing the box was something like 10K per box when the dust settled and the Aerowave did amazing things.
You could create a arc for reaching into a deep vee prep. The arc looked liked a pencil point. For the cover pass the arc was changed and it looked like a little cocktail umbrella.
If you get a modern inverter there is a bit of learning to maximize the benefits of such machines.
 
Here are some specs for the Dynasty 350

32 amps input 230v (3 phase) at rated output (300 amps @32v, 60% duty cycle)

43 amps input 230v (single phase) at rated output (225amp @29v, 60% duty cycle)


For comparison the Syncrowave 350 specs (transformer rectifier)

110 amps input 230v (single phase only) at rated output (300 amps @32vac, 60% duty cycle)

These specs are from the Miller 2014 catalog

I have seen the Dynasty 350 TIGRunner Complete 951626 for $ 8749.00 shipped online.
 
Amperage going in is not the whole story, you gotta consider power factor with ac or its meaningless. Google power factor if you want to know why.

IMHO though the biggest saveings is with the control they give you. Get pulse working right and you can really motor on some jobs compared to straight power. Also start playing with AC and balance controls again give you some real big time saveings. Its not just about absorbed power, but how fast you can lay the metal down too! A shorter arc on time for a given weld will nearly always save you money. Welding faster reduces gas usage and most importantly labour time!
 
The electricity gurus in the Transformers, etc. subform might have some helpful answers.

In my situation the savings came from being able to run a smaller circuit to my welding station--smaller conductors, outlets, conduit, breaker, etc.

I think you'd have to be in serious production welding for many hours to see significant power savings.
 
how much less time will an inverter welder take?

Comments from an end user of a 350 for 2 years; tigger for 26 years, 10K hours on the bench. 70% repairs, 30% fab.
The driving reason behind a Dynasty 350 purchase needs to be time/labor savings, especially with AL welding. 6X faster than a tranny, as a guide.
The power and gas savings (from less arc-on time and gas lens) are the frosting on the cake.

The Miller Dynasty 350 allows for INFINITE tailoring of the arc characteristics in AC—for welding AL (Aluminum).
4 basic wave forms to choose from.
The arc can be focused to a tight, stiff cone about .060-.090 OD, then the amplitude of the waveform adjusted to vary the EP/EN to suit. The Electrode positive/Electrode negative amplitudes can be independent of each other.
Wave form balance is used, plus cranking the AC frequency up to stiffen the arc.
All of the above creates a powerful, intense arc that is much more efficient for precise, fast welding, penetration to suit and minimum heat input. Massive, focused heat succeeds where all other methods-fail.

It's 6X faster than an old tranny, while consuming a fraction of the power and gas needed.
I began on a 400A Birdsell, then Lincoln idealarc 300/300, then new Lincoln 355 Squarewave, then on to inverters.
Most folks will just blow off the above buffet of basic settings as just so many bells and whistles to justify the ‘ridiculous overpricing’ of a damn welding machine. From a user experience that started with old transformers, then using my 4th machine-a thermal arc, 300 amp, AC-DC inverter in ‘97—I realized that one could weld 6X faster in AL than with a conventional transformer and could do things with that T-A that were impossible with the old units; plus (in my case—save a good, hard, real $2K/year or more in power savings and gas—which pays for the machine over and over).
Prior to purchase, I knew that learning the 350's computerized menu would be some work. I soon realized that everything I 'Knew' about setting up and running previous high power AC/DC inverters, squarewave trannies and conventional trannies--
---meant nothing when learning how to setup the 350. Using old set up techniques didn't produce the same arc characteristics. I was able to get 'okay' results, right off-first arc.....and then start the learning curve of the little details of 350 setups....just like every experienced user of the 350 has had to do.
Experienced AL tiggers know what they're looking for as they tailor the arc.
Low time AL tiggers-don't.
Collaborating with other users-helps. The link below shows the results of a setup method that's completely opposite to the 'norm'…….and works rather well for certain applications. Myself and others are still learning the potential of this machine.

Taking a different approach to independently adjustable EN and EP amperage.
 
savings with inverter?

...snip... How long would it take to pay for the welder with the "savings". Is there any "savings", it seems to me that it will take a certain number of BTUs to weld, will it take the same amount of electricity to create those BTUs with a transformer or with an inverter?
-on AL figure electric consumption 10-20% of a tranny
-The time/labor savings apparently eludes the experts.
-The gas savings from decreased time is significant.
A tranny takes a whale of a lot more power to run than an inverter, just in the machine circuit design.

The arc from a balled tungsten-splayed, dancing and spread out is wholly inefficient compared
to the stiff, focused cone from a sharp pointed tungsten, which can be putting 90% of the heat into the puddle/joint.
 
How long does it take you to rack up $9100 in electric bills? How much of your time is spent on welding?

We tried changing the welding curtains in the weld booth to solar cells....the salesman said it
would power the new inverter welder just from the bright lite....:rolleyes5:
 
I have an Airco TIG welder, 35 years old, AC DC 460 max weld amps. It runs on 220V single phase, 103 amps at full load . It is used mostly on aluminum. I have been told that an inverter welder will use enough less power that it will pay for the up grade. I looked at a new Miller Dynasty 350 today, the thing is stupid money, I was quoted 9100.00 for the welder, cart, cooler, foot pedal and torch. How long would it take to pay for the welder with the "savings". Is there any "savings", it seems to me that it will take a certain number of BTUs to weld, will it take the same amount of electricity to create those BTUs with a transformer or with an inverter?
.
how much does electricity cost to run your old machine? if it cost $12,000 a year and you save 1/2 then you might save $6000 a year
.
obviously if your total electric bill lights, other machines and welding machine is all less than $12,000/yr then the savings would be less by just replacing the one welding machine which is not the whole electric bill by it self
.
remember a welding machine uses less power when not welding and but it is on. what electricity does it use when just powered up but not welding ??
 
There have been days I've been tempted to buy an inverter to get away from the fan noise on my transformer machine.
 








 
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