Plumbers Heating Torch - So Confused!

Tenson · Aug 23, 2017

Hi guys,

I bought a cheap heating torch with the aim of heating some rusty nuts and bolts to help free them up.

The torch has a barbed fitting for the hose and a small knob to control the gas.

I be no idea how to get gas in to it!! Ideally I want to use a camping gas canister with what I think is called an EN417 fitting. Do I need a pressure regulator and if So, what pressure? I've only seen ones for the camping canisters labled as 'low pressure' ~30mbar. Is that okay or do I want a high pressure one like 2-4bar? I can't find any in that pressure range which have the fitting I want.

The hose that came with the torch seems to have a useless fitting. Just a flat connecting face with a washer as screw thread.

Shared album - Simon Ashton - Google Photos

Shared album - Simon Ashton - Google Photos

Conrad Hoffman · Aug 23, 2017

That looks like the fitting that would attach to a standard regulator, like you'd find for welding. The notches indicate it's a left hand thread, again what you'd expect to find. It should be possible to get a low pressure regulator for the propane tank, with the right fitting.

WizardOfBoz · Aug 23, 2017

Yeah, the barbed fitting is a low pressure connection. A few psi. A tank will be in the thousands of psi. You need a regulator on the tank (must be the proper regulator - different gases have different threads, by design, to prevent mishaps). So you're missing a part.

TDegenhart · Aug 23, 2017

All of the propane torches I have used had the hose and torch directly to the tank, no regulator. The hose fits the barbed fitting with a hose clamp.

Tom

I was thinking of the hand held torches. Now that I think about it, the propane grill does have a pressure regulator.

Bosleyjr: tank pressures are in the hundreds, not thousands. Propane 11, Propane Regulator Facts

T:-

9100 · Aug 23, 2017

Take the torch to a welding supply store. There are countless different fittings to allow a torch to only be used on the gas it was designed for. Guessing will only get you in trouble.

Bill

MattiJ · Aug 24, 2017

TDegenhart said:
All of the propane torches I have used had the hose and torch directly to the tank, no regulator. The hose fits the barbed fitting with a hose clamp.

Tom

I was thinking of the hand held torches. Now that I think about it, the propane grill does have a pressure regulator.

Bosleyjr: tank pressures are in the hundreds, not thousands. Propane 11, Propane Regulator Facts

T:-

Might be different on that side of pond.
Here (and quite possibly op's UK) the high pressure regulator is the norm for these things. 0-2 bar is the norm.

Unfortunately I don't think there is high pressure regulators for non-refillable camping gas cylinders. Maybe OP can get 5kg composite bottle, they are not too heavy to drag around and reasonably common at least in here.

MattiJ · Aug 24, 2017

Bit less common but this works with camping gas cylinders:
Burner Kemper 1217S - Burners - Other power tools

Tenson · Aug 24, 2017

bosleyjr said:
Yeah, the barbed fitting is a low pressure connection.

MattiJ said:
the high pressure regulator is the norm for these things. 0-2 bar is the norm.

I've definitely seen torches that run on 2 bar. But they also have proper threaded fittings. I'm inclined to think That, as Bosley suggests, the fact the handle has a barbed fitting means it is designed for low pressure.

Then again these type of torches look like they run from the high pressure canister without s regulator, right?

Shared album - Simon Ashton - Google Photos

MattiJ · Aug 24, 2017

Tenson said:
I've definitely seen torches that run on 2 bar. But they also have proper threaded fittings. I'm inclined to think That, as Bosley suggests, the fact the handle has a barbed fitting means it is designed for low pressure.

Then again these type of torches look like they run from the high pressure canister without s regulator, right?

Shared album - Simon Ashton - Google Photos

30 mbar torch would be very strange (and low power)
Maybe yours was cheap because it is some oddball version not used in UK. Not unheard that cheapo stores sometimes import weird stuff..
Based on quick googling 3/8" LH female is the standard in UK for high pressure regulators and torches.

Yes, there are torches that couple directly to EN417 canisters and there is also some versions with hose (like the one I linked)

Should be easy enough to find if you don't need a version with a hose.

adama · Aug 24, 2017

If a real sivet torch, not a knock off they run on propane (red tank) and its common to use a 0-4 bar regulator depending in on your chosen nozzel from delicate to 4 burner roofing torch. Torch setups not cheap, but the quality (solid brass) is awsome, your looking around the £100+ mark

Here in the UK a propane tank will be around 30 bar, not thousands of PSI, (but about 500PSi off the top of my head), bloody right you need a regulator!!!

What you have there looks like a flat face fitting, but then you buy cheap knock off shit and i spose you take your chances.

Regulator will then have a std for the uk 3/8 BSP cone fitting and yep being a fuel gas it will be left hand thread! Propane bottle has a std high pressure 5/8BSP styled left hand thread for a male cone fitting.

Camping gas disposable tanks are not what you need, wrong gas, wrong pressure, wrong fittings, wrong flow rates!

TDegenhart · Aug 24, 2017

Tank pressure at 70*F is about 100 psi.

Tom

Tenson · Aug 24, 2017

Starting to seem like this was a total waste of money! Yes the included hose has a flat face fitting while all regulators have a cone type.

What is the cheapest way to get this functional? Bare in mind all I want to do is loosen the occasional rusty bolt or heat a tight fitting part.

MattiJ · Aug 25, 2017

Tenson said:
What is the cheapest way to get this functional? Bare in mind all I want to do is loosen the occasional rusty bolt or heat a tight fitting part.

Unless you have big propane bottle for BBQ or similar its best to forget the bastard version that you have now.

If you have big (BBQ) bottle just buy one of the ready kits like Sievert 86 Propane Gas Torch Kit Plumbing Metalwork Soldering Brazing 5m Hose | eBay

Or one of those small burners that screw on "camping gas" EN417 cylinders but they seem to be bit rare in UK. I have one that works with MAPP gas.
Like this (not sure if how easily you can find in UK) Rothenberger Lotgerat Power Mapp | eBay

1" thread fitting disposable cylinder seems to be common in UK and MAPP gas gives you better performance than propane so that might be one option:
Monument 345G Plumbers Brazing and Soldering Gas Torch & MAPP Gas Plumbing Kit

TDegenhart · Aug 25, 2017

Going back to post #1, you didn't say how big these nuts and bolts are. From my experience with trying to heat "large" objects with a hand held propane torch, I think you will be disappointed with just about anything that uses gas and air. They just don't get hot enough.

I would suggest a small oxy-fuel torch. Looking through Ebay, I see combination oxy-fuel systems with small carry around tanks that would ideal for occasional heating. A word a caution. I would be specious of units for $60. The tanks have to be certified to be refillable. The regulators HAVE to be quality and reliable. A failure here can cause BIG time problems.

Either go to a reputable welding gas supplier for a unit, or if you see a used set, take the set to the gas suppler and have it checked out.

Smith, Harris and Victor are quality units in the US. Not sure of the UK. Something like this. I know nothing about Biltek and I am not promoting them, just an example of a nice compact carry about unit.

Jet.com - Prices Drop As You Shop

Read carefully the notes about the tanks. This could be a killer.

Tom

MattiJ · Aug 25, 2017

TDegenhart said:
Going back to post #1, you didn't say how big these nuts and bolts are. From my experience with trying to heat "large" objects with a hand held propane torch, I think you will be disappointed with just about anything that uses gas and air. They just don't get hot enough.

I would suggest a small oxy-fuel torch. Looking through Ebay, I see combination oxy-fuel systems with small carry around tanks that would ideal for occasional heating. A word a caution. I would be specious of units for $60. The tanks have to be certified to be refillable. The regulators HAVE to be quality and reliable. A failure here can cause BIG time problems.

Tom

If the cost's related with refillable oxy+fuel cylinders in UK are anything like in here the disposable non-refillable oxyfuel cylinder sets look attractive for once-in-a-while use.
Heck, you get decent bolt&nut induction heater for the price of refillable cylinder set and it wont need fill-ups, inspections every N years and its much safer to use under a car or similar..

DDoug · Aug 25, 2017

The amount of mis-information in this thread is
down right disgusting.

MattiJ · Aug 25, 2017

digger doug said:
The amount of mis-information in this thread is
down right disgusting.

what part of it?

adama · Aug 25, 2017

Yep stand correct, 30 bar is what the propane tank test pressure is.

That said, gotta agree with the above, its not really the thing - way to go to heat rusted nuts up, for that you really do need oxy fuel, but large propane torches are great for silver brazing things, large soft soldering and all sorts of basic heat treatment on carbon steels. With some good kiln bricks you can just about bronze braze with air propane torches but its a struggle.

DDoug · Aug 25, 2017

MattiJ said:
what part of it?

Most of it...... :skep:

lucky7 · Aug 28, 2017

Digger Doug: please be specific and helpful or shut up.

Regards,
Lucky7

Plumbers Heating Torch - So Confused!

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