Press brake tooling for a newbie

Doug W · Apr 5, 2017

I am building a press brake to fit in my 100 ton hydraulic shop press.
I will be mostly bending 1/8" to 3/8" steel plate. Simple stuff up to 90 degree bends for making hydraulic tanks etc..
I found a guy that is selling used press brake tooling, older American style.

My question, what style of upper male v die and radius would be best for my use?
I see he has plain old v style, goose neck etc with various angles.

I think I would like a 4 way bottom die, but I am not sure if he has any.
From the pics, just a single female v on bottom dies.

I am only looking to get a couple of styles, anything more complex than my simple bends I would take to a shop.

Thanks!

jamscal · Apr 5, 2017

Press Brake Store

This has the specs and capacities...you should be able to get an idea of what you need.

LKeithR · Apr 5, 2017

How long do you need? Where in the PNW are you?

4-ways are handy in one sense but they limit the width of reverses you can make with the smaller Vs. Goosenecks are only really
needed if you're making tight returns...

Doug W · Apr 5, 2017

LKeithR said:
How long do you need? Where in the PNW are you?

4-ways are handy in one sense but they limit the width of reverses you can make with the smaller Vs. Goosenecks are only really
needed if you're making tight returns...

4ft max, I am in Portland.

Probably won't ever really be doing any tight returns.

Doug W · Apr 5, 2017

jamscal said:
Press Brake Store

This has the specs and capacities...you should be able to get an idea of what you need.

OK I have looked at that. Appears that is for full contact coining?
So I would need different dies for every different thickness of plate I was bending?

If so, believe I would want to air bend.

Scruffy887 · Apr 5, 2017

Are all of your bends 90 degrees? Bottom bending and you may be able to get away with a few punches, but will need more dies as thickness increases. When the die grenades you go to the next larger opening size. If the distance to the floor for the die is the same distance as your junk, Kevlar underwear would be required. 1/8 material, .625 die opening. But 3/8 material and the die will need a minimum of 2.75 opening. There is a lot of information on the net about this. Look and learn as press brake punches and dies are fully hardened. 100 tons has got to find the path of least resistance.

Scruffy887 · Apr 5, 2017

Doug W said:
OK I have looked at that. Appears that is for full contact coining?
So I would need different dies for every different thickness of plate I was bending?

If so, believe I would want to air bend.

Air bending requires a very precise punch depth. Lets say you can control the depth to 4 tenths. European standards. But can you control the material thickness to the same specs? Material grain?
No matter what you will need several different die openings. You don't need one for every single gauge for GP use. But you will need a range.

Doug W · Apr 5, 2017

Scruffy887 said:
Air bending requires a very precise punch depth. Lets say you can control the depth to 4 tenths. European standards. But can you control the material thickness to the same specs? Material grain?
No matter what you will need several different die openings. You don't need one for every single gauge for GP use. But you will need a range.

Well as a practical matter, what difference will it make on a 2ftx2ft hydraulic tank if some of the bends are 91 degrees and other 89??
Pull it in square and weld it up.

So what size die openings would I need to go from 1/8" to 3/8"?
And what angle would be best for the top die?

Thanks!!

dana gear · Apr 6, 2017

I could spend all night and the next day going over press brake dies, but I am too old ,so I will let you do it instead.
Go to the Cincinnati press brake home page at the bottom of there page see Load calcs that will open another page at the bottom left side of that page" press brake capacities" its booklet PT-50691
Cincinnati has mountains of information on metal and alloy forming die sizes/types, forming profiles etc.
This booklet PT -50691 and Press brake/shear handbook second edition by Harold Daniels is required reading for our shop.

Rewt · Apr 6, 2017

In general, you want the V opening to be 6 to 10 times the material thickness, the larger the better. As for the punch radius, you want 10% of material thickness or more. Real common punch radii that suppliers keep on hand is 0.030, 0.060, 0.090. This is just a general rule from someone who set up brake jobs before he became a toolmaker.

Oh, and Wilson Tool makes damn fine press brake tooling, but they're high.

jamscal · Apr 6, 2017

If you are asking what ONE die you'd need it would be the one for 3/8" because you can bend 11 ga on it but you can't bend 3/8" with a die meant for 11 ga.

Have you seen a tonnage chart? This is tonnage required for one foot of material. Check out how much tonnage needs increase over a given die size for a given material. There is some overlap.

Scruffy887 · Apr 6, 2017

Wilson make excellent tooling like Rewt said, but you want American style tooling. Ebay, Craigs list, whatever. American style is +-.004 and European is +-.0004. Cincinnati also makes something called American Precision? +-.0008. For your work used stuff will work fine. European tooling is the most accurate because of the very tight tolerances. Some punches sell for $40-50 per running inch.

Doug W · Apr 7, 2017

Well after driving over and looking at what the guy had, (lots of oddball stuff) I did find a 6ft section of lower die with a 1" opening, so it appears to be for 11 gauge, I can use that.
And a 6ft section of upper die that appears to also be for 11 gauge.
None had any identification marks I could find.

So for $40, I guess I can at least bend something.

Going to keep my eye out for a 4 way lower die.

Mcgyver · Apr 7, 2017

and don;t start trying bend thicker stuff in too narrow a die to save the cost of a die.....first one exploding will cure you that

The force gets converted into the die suddenly breaking in two with the near side flying toward you

We had it happen once, fortunately no one was hurt.

gbent · Apr 7, 2017

Doug W said:
Well after driving over and looking at what the guy had, (lots of oddball stuff) I did find a 6ft section of lower die with a 1" opening, so it appears to be for 11 gauge, I can use that.
And a 6ft section of upper die that appears to also be for 11 gauge.
None had any identification marks I could find.

So for $40, I guess I can at least bend something.

$40! Dang, you did good! I don't think that would buy 1" of either punch or die from Wilson.

Scruffy887 · Apr 7, 2017

To make communication easier, top part is called a punch, lower part a die. $40.00 is awesome.
As for Wilson being expensive, they are about average in price for European tolerance tooling. +- 008 on american tooling can give you some serious deviation over a 12' length. Not a problem for those shops that have this as their only need. Hit it, measure, bump it again. Job done. European tooling comes in assorted short segments and you use only the lengths needed for a job. If you break one you can get another and at +-.0004 no worries. No worrie$$$.
I do most general stuff with an acute angle 1 mm radius punch, <16 to 10 gauge. And either a 12 mm or 24 mm acute lower die. Need to order more tooling next week. May not buy food for a while.

Doug W · Apr 7, 2017

gbent said:
$40! Dang, you did good! I don't think that would buy 1" of either punch or die from Wilson.

Yeah that is why I needed answers fast, it was scrapyard prices!
He said he had sold lots, so I think the punch and dies for thicker stuff was long gone.

MARK07747 · Apr 9, 2017

You should use 85 degree dies as they allow for over bending to compensate for spring back in the material. If you use a 90 degree die, you will need to apply a lot more force to "coin" the material to prevent spring back. The quickest way to check a die is with a credit car or drivers license. if it fits right in the die, it is a 90 degree. If there is side clearance that increases toward the bottom of the die, it is a 85 degree or less.

Rewt · Apr 10, 2017

Mcgyver said:
and don;t start trying bend thicker stuff in too narrow a die to save the cost of a die.....first one exploding will cure you that The force gets converted into the die suddenly breaking in two with the near side flying toward you

We had it happen once, fortunately no one was hurt.

Yeah, I had that happen once. Sure will get the heart rate going.

dkmc · Apr 12, 2017

dana gear said:
I could spend all night and the next day going over press brake dies, but I am too old ,so I will let you do it instead.
Go to the Cincinnati press brake home page at the bottom of there page see Load calcs that will open another page at the bottom left side of that page" press brake capacities" its booklet PT-50691
Cincinnati has mountains of information on metal and alloy forming die sizes/types, forming profiles etc.
This booklet PT -50691 and Press brake/shear handbook second edition by Harold Daniels is required reading for our shop.

When I read this post the other night, I searched on Amazon and found the Press Brake/ Shear handbook, bought a good used one for $17. Just came in the mail today, it is great! A ton of info and data in there. I will read it forwards and backwards 6 times......for starters.
Thank you for the tip.

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