Tig welding with a stereao microscope

webphut · May 1, 2012

Hello,
I am going to be trying some tig welding under the magnification of a stereo microscope. I have one major concern to address, and was hoping to get fellow welders input on the topic. Let me describe what I am seeing on the various website photographs and images that are related to this type of tig welding that I am concerned with. I see everyone not use any kind of shielding from the light or welding flash while looking through the eye optics during the welding process. I would think that there should be some sort of drape like shielding that separates the welder from the welding flash. I would not usually be concerned with the issue, except I work at a national lab and safety is number one. If I start welding like I have seen so far, I will be written up no doubt. Does anyone have any input or experience with this issue? I would like to address this before I try this method of tig welding. I look forward to reading any input for a efficient solution to this.

DDoug · May 2, 2012

There is a couple of companies around Erie that do micro welding for plastic mold repair.

I was walking by the booth at the local trade expo, and they were dooing it just
as you describe.

I noticed that I didn't need any helmet standing 5 feet away, and looked over
at the power supply's digital amp meter.

It read 7 amps.

They said they were taking existing filler wire an re-drawing it down to .010
IIRC.

You could make a solid metal shield with 2 holes in it for the eyepieces
I suppose.

dave powelson · May 5, 2012

microscopic low amp TIG welding w/no arc protection?

I've never tigged with a microscope-but-

At 5 amps DC---the arc required use of an A/D helmet,
in order to see anything and not begin welding my retina.
Yes, it's a small arc, with an .005-010 puddle--but it's just as
bright and hot as a big puddle!

I'm confused--the OP is going to setup an experiment to
do this in a national weapons lab (presumably-Concord Naval Weapons)
and they won't bother to research/establish equipment, process
and setup parameters in a studied manner?

DDoug · May 7, 2012

dave powelson said:
I've never tigged with a microscope-but-

At 5 amps DC---the arc required use of an A/D helmet,
in order to see anything and not begin welding my retina.
Yes, it's a small arc, with an .005-010 puddle--but it's just as
bright and hot as a big puddle!

I'm confused--the OP is going to setup an experiment to
do this in a national weapons lab (presumably-Concord Naval Weapons)
and they won't bother to research/establish equipment, process
and setup parameters in a studied manner?

Let me edit my post a bit....the operator using the stereo microscope
DID have a filter lense fitted in there somehow, either in front
of the lenses, or somewhere.

Jason H · May 7, 2012

digger doug said:
Let me edit my post a bit....the operator using the stereo microscope
DID have a filter lense fitted in there somehow, either in front
of the lenses, or somewhere.

Guys micro tig has been something I wanted to start to learn about. In the sewing field there are a tremendous amount of important parts that could be saved if I could add just a small amount of material and reshape a point. here are some photos of random parts that require this. Sorry to Hijack the thread.

Jason

where do I begin to learn? I have just started to learn to tig with a Syncro 250. In the photos, the pointed ends are the most important and need to be sharp.

Thanks

jason

adama · May 7, 2012

Jason have you considered sending some out to some one with a laser welder? Might be cheaper + easier if its a handful or 2 at a time?

That said i was welding some nichrome wire the other day with my TIG, wire circa 1mm diameter. Actually welding it to make little support structures for a friend to use with glass in there kiln. Was using some even thinner Nichrome as filler (think it was a heating element off something) Took a surprising 12 amps to just get it to begin to weld (had to be white hot to make a puddle, hence was running the helmet at circa 10 darkness normally on mild steel that low i find 8 to be able to see is all it takes). Next time i do it im having a coffee after not before! Its hard seeing and maintaining a circa 1./32" long arc and feeding filler rod in with out magnification!

Hence welding points on those is defiantly doable, but your going to need to get the right filler and practice a fair bit. Equally your going to need some fine jeweller style grinding - polishing gear to finish them up.

Jason H · May 7, 2012

adama said:
Jason have you considered sending some out to some one with a laser welder? Might be cheaper + easier if its a handful or 2 at a time?

Please educate me on the differences or point me in the right direction to the library. I would love to learn.

Thanks

Jason

Heavey Metal · May 7, 2012

Jason H said:
Guys micro tig has been something I wanted to start to learn about. In the sewing field there are a tremendous amount of important parts that could be saved if I could add just a small amount of material and reshape a point. here are some photos of random parts that require this. Sorry to Hijack the thread.

Jason
View attachment 51749 View attachment 51750

where do I begin to learn? I have just started to learn to tig with a Syncro 250. In the photos, the pointed ends are the most important and need to be sharp.

Thanks

jason

I wouild think that a powder torch would work well to build these up

Jason H · May 7, 2012

Heavey Metal said:
I wouild think that a powder torch would work well to build these up

Keep in mind that scale on these are the size of regular needles to a little thick. Looking at the photos now it is tough to tell. The other items that you see that have the round holes pass normal size thread through it.

Thanks

Jason

webphut · May 11, 2012

I am interested in all available information that I can apply to my practice. I am going solo on this one in terms of turning to the lab for its knowledge. The lab does not have the experience in this area as I am 1 of 3 Tig welders here. This is a new area for the lab and it would not be worthwhile cost wise to persue it on a lab wide basis. For my convenience and to improve my welds, and to make the strain on my eyes less I am willing to research it on my own. I have a mag lens in my hood, but it is no wheres near what I am after and what I really need for what I am welding. I am actually looking for symptons of blow through and circumventing the problem more the actraul welding itself while welding. The microscope is just to make it easier to see the symptoms of any possible blow through and cracks.

rinn69 · May 26, 2012

Jason H said:
Please educate me on the differences or point me in the right direction to the library. I would love to learn.

Thanks

Jason

You can look to see if there are any dental laboratories (the place that actually makes crowns, bridges, dentures) near you that may have a laser welder. They are few and far between and they are pricy...ours (Made by Orotig) cost about $15K back in 2006. I recently retired from the AF, so using "mine" is not do-able, but I have personally laser welded 2 pieces of .030" wire together, so this sounds like it would be a good fit for your needs. Do a search for "dental lab laser welder" and that should get ya started in the right direction.

Jeweltool · May 26, 2012

Also check with jewelry stores in your area if you are looking for someone to do laser work. Most jewelry stores that do repair work inhouse have a laser welder.

Two most popular brands are LaserStar and Rofin.

Chris999 · May 27, 2012

Just curious if a video microscope could be used. The drawback I can see is response lag of the video and especially the aperture function to account for the arc brightness.

Maybe a microscope fed directly to a monitor would work.

Looking at a video screen is certainly a lot easier then peering through a microscope although it might take a bit of getting used to...

Chris

microfusion · May 30, 2012

Is this the type of welding your speaking of?

microfusionwelding.com

webphut · Jun 2, 2012

microfusion said:
Is this the type of welding your speaking of?

microfusionwelding.com

Yes, that is essentially similar in size what I am welding.

webphut · Jun 2, 2012

The attached photo, is a basic idea of what my welding may consist of. Typically it is a .093" OD or a .125" OD tube with a.006" to .010" wall thickness and I weld them into weld preps that I machine. I make the weld prep with a little bigger ID and with the same wall thickness as the tube. This has been the easiest for me to weld. I think that if I use a stereo zoom microscope during my welding, it will not only allow me to see what is actually going on, but improve my welds too. It seems that 6 or out of 10 welds seem to pass the vacuum leak check. If I do not do the described weld prep, I can literally watch cracks form as the parts cool, under a microscope after the welding is completed.

Cyclotronguy · Sep 20, 2012

I used to do that in school (University) had to tig weld a tiny SS capsule that was 1cc in volume. Like your project the capsule had to pass a mass spec. leak check.... so vacuum tight.

Old 300 amp ideal-arc at whatever was the minimum amperage 10 - 15 amps or less.

The B&L stereoscope I had modified had a standard #9 welding lens in front of the objective on a little swing away frame. You just had to remember to swing it back in place before you struck the arc.

Cyclotronguy

adama · Sep 22, 2012

Other thing i find with small welds but on big parts and thats pre heat. They seam way more inclined to crack with out it!

SND · Sep 22, 2012

I've done 5-6amp fusion tig stuff with my helmet on #9, definitely gotta have a shield . Bigger issue with it is arc length, ideally just having it all mechanized or at least properly supported and using a rotary table.

Laser seems pretty ideal when going that small, but I don't know what those cost.

webphut · Apr 3, 2017

Well it's been a while since I started this topic. I think the lab decided it was cost effective to catch up with the modern times. I have since left the lab, but last I heard from the guy that writes the checks, he was researching laser welders. I told him get a shot at using one first and then buy one he dealt would fit the team. Nice thing with the new laser welders, his secretary can weld these hub assemblies with nail polish and high heals. Anyways.

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Tig welding with a stereao microscope

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