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water cooled tig torch

rimcanyon

Diamond
Joined
Sep 28, 2002
Location
Salinas, CA USA
I overheated the TWECO torch on my TIG (20+ yr. old Miller Synchrowave 250) enough to deform the plastic sheath, most likely due to poor water circulation through the torch. With the sheath slid back, there is no real damage, the hoses and connections appear o.k., so I think the torch is still ok.

The pump has always seemed to be weak, and I don't have a good sense of how much water it should pump or how to test it. I visited the local welding supply (Airgas in Salinas), and nobody there was familiar with water cooled torches or replacement pumps, although I can't say I am surprised. That shop used to be a Victor shop, then Airco, now Airgas, and the level of knowledge has gone down and down and down. I guess all the TIG units they sell don't come with water cooled torches???

Here is a photo of the water cooling unit, which has no name on it, so if you recognize it please advise. When the TIG welder is on, water flows into the jar in the foreground, which drains into the tank, but the flow is pretty small.

IMG_3948.jpg

IMG_3949.jpg

Thanks for any help in locating repair parts for the pump...

-Dave
 
Are you using proper coolant and is a line clogged and are you operating above the torches amp rating, coolant is king
 
I have a Lincoln cooler and as far as flow rate, I'd guess it would fill a beer can in about 10 seconds. Even running distilled water through it for 5 years, it still showed a bit of scale on the inside of the pipes. My guess is you have a constriction somewhere in the system. Can you pull the pump and observe the flow while it is disconnected from the rest of the system? Any other markings or numbers on the pump?
 
Before I replaced anything I would clean and service torch and coolant system. Crude could affect heat transfer and decrease water flow.
 
Rim Canyon.

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp268/ACMETHREAD/DSC00573_zpstoccudsf.jpg
Pic I took of one I have, just plain water out of a 3500 SS Bernard cooler. Did you check the filter in your pump, usually a 1" or so brass cap/nut, with a screen inside, They can get funky,and starve the pump. dave [acme thread]



I'd say it sure looks like a Bernard. I've got a couple. The motor drives a fan behind a radiator and the other end of the motor drives the pump. It's the same pump that is used in some of the soda pop carbonaters. Probably a lot of other uses as well. Take the pump apart and clean out the insides. There is a screen that is probably gunked up. While your at it, clean out the tank as well. There is probably all kinds of crap in there. Check the hoses and fittings for obstruction as well. With the proper flow, you ought to be able to max out your welder before you get the hoses melted!
 
I'd say it sure looks like a Bernard. I've got a couple. The motor drives a fan behind a radiator and the other end of the motor drives the pump. It's the same pump that is used in some of the soda pop carbonaters. Probably a lot of other uses as well. Take the pump apart and clean out the insides. There is a screen that is probably gunked up. While your at it, clean out the tank as well. There is probably all kinds of crap in there. Check the hoses and fittings for obstruction as well. With the proper flow, you ought to be able to max out your welder before you get the hoses melted!

Other uses are commercial expresso machines, to add one to the list.

Should be a standard type of coupler that is used for carbonator type pumps. A clamp around the perimeter, with a straight coupler that fits a slot in the motor. You can take a look at Ebay for examples. IIRC, 100 liters per hour is pretty typical.

Should be able to replace the pump outright for less than a rebuild kit at retail.

Cheers
Trev
 
I have a Bernard 2500 (2-1/2 Gallon capacity) and I alternate this from time to time with a home built unit with 10 gallon capacity, although I seldom use more than 3 gallons of fluid in it. Both have Procon pumps with pressure gauges. They each show about 50 psi and, as mentioned above will fill a beer can in a short while. I have no idea of the gallons per minute flow, however.

I suspect that a good cleaning of your unit followed up with a check of flow into a bucket to get some idea that it's moving fluid would be all you need. It's probably just clogged up.

For fluid, I run a gallon of Dex Cool (50% mix from the factory) along with two gallons of distilled water. Some say that automotive coolant is no good and will ruin your torch. This could be true. It could still happen to me since I've only been using it that way since 1990 with the same torch. You never know. :D
 
I visited the local welding supply (Airgas in Salinas), and nobody there was familiar with water cooled torches or replacement pumps, although I can't say I am surprised. That shop used to be a Victor shop, then Airco, now Airgas, and the level of knowledge has gone down and down and down. I guess all the TIG units they sell don't come with water cooled torches???

Thanks for any help in locating repair parts for the pump...

-Dave

The torch head may be clogged. Never done it myself but I would try reversing the water hose connections on the
torch and flush with distilled water. Before doing that check every other part in the system. You don't say if
the coolant is water or the Miller Swill concoction. Something other than water (and not changed for a while)
may be the worst of it.
 
Lots of help here, thanks for that. I have never added anything but distilled water into the tank, just to maintain whatever it came with. I've never replaced it in 20 yrs... So maybe thats the problem. Its definitely due for a complete cleaning. I'll start by cleaning the wire screen in the pump and see what that does. The flow rate is a bit lower than it should be. I would guess it would take a half minute to fill a beer can.

-Dave
 
I have two units running. One for my 300 amp tig and one for a 500 amp mig. Both of my coolers will throw a 20+ foot 1/4" stream when the hose is disconnected at the torch. Both rigs have 20 foot long cables. I don't have a pressure gauge on either of the pumps.
 
I recently bought a 1980's vintage Miller Dialarc 250 HF that came w/ a Bernard torch cooler. Everything worked when I tested it during the tire kicking session so I bought it. The whole kit needed a good cleaning and I also bought a bunch of Miller replacement parts like capacitors etc. The Bernard "water" was mostly automotive anti- freeze w/ a layer
of "Mississippi Mud" at the bottom of the tank so all that too was cleaned. I went on the Welding Web site to research replacement torch's and parts and saw that there was
mention of "non-conductive coolant additive" for the distilled water.....Hmmmm... didn't know that and as I have been shocked by a TIG torch once or twice thought this might be the bee's knees solution. In the past I have always used anti-freeze in the cooling water just so it would not get rank. I really can't say if this was due to conduction through the water in the TIG unit but I needed coolant anyway so I bit on the theory and got some.:skep:
 
Unless you live in a climate where the temp NEVER reaches freezing, or run HVAC 24/7/365, you need to have some kind of antifreeze in the tank. Parked the old Linde at the museum a little too close to the roll up door in the restoration hangar one night many moons ago. Freeze popped the radiator and drained out all the water. Next time I went to work, instantly burned up the hoses. Got new hoses and filled with water. That's when the leak showed itself. Had to have radiator repaired (as I had no TIG to work on it!).
 
Looks like a Bernard, clean as stated above. Have a bunch at work.
+1 to the pumps throwing water a good distance when hoses come apart....

Miller and im sure everyone else makes a fancyfull coolant that is basically antifreeze and water but it has something in it to help with the HiFreq which can cause corrosion problems in the torch lines.
Not sure what the additive is but I have seen a difference in the machines and torches at work.
Hi Frequency does strange things...
 
i'm of no help with your situation, sorry. i'm spoiled by the late model units that fault out when a shortage of flow is detected.

just wanted to make a point about airgas, however. the service guy at our local branch is incredibly knowledgeable, maybe this particular store just got lucky but there isn't much he doesn't know about when it comes to miller stuff.
 
Rim Canyon, Does this look lie your pump? This one says OBERDORFER, on the casting at the 6:00 position,where the stainless screws are. Also has a 9213 casting mark below the input shaft ,on the drive end. This one looks like it's never been hooked up, there's no set screw mark on the input shaft. But it's been laying around here for years. Your welcome to it for postage, A med. flat rate will cost you about $12.00.

http://i418.photobucket.com/albums/pp268/ACMETHREAD/tools/DSC00637_zpsntmbp0e5.jpg
 
Acme, that's it! I had to use a flashlight to see the details on the flange, but it has oberdorfer & 5765, the same as yours. Thanks for your kind offer, I will take you up on it.

-Dave
 
I have the same brand by the looks of your pictures. it is an Airco brand that's all I have at this point I'm looking also for more info on this cooler. if you have found anymore info on this cooler I would greatly appreciate the info.
 








 
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