Why do I keep getting bad argon? - Page 2
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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave powelson View Post
    -
    -check actual gas flow out of torch cup with flow indicator]
    First thing to check really
    Use one of those torch cup flow indicators You have one ???

    If not buy one Very handy for trouble shooting
    It may be you don`t have enough flow comming out of the toarch

    Peter

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    I just ordered a torch cup flow meter.

    I also used dish soap water mix on the joints, all along the hoses, and all over the regulator - all seem good. The balls both drop to zero when I close off each line or with the line on and the valve in the welder off, suggesting I don't have a leak.

    I've put a call into one of the companies who does fab work for me at my real job; I'm going to see if they will be willing to help me for a half hour by testing out one of my tanks. They have welders there who make he most perfect welds, so I'm sure they will be able to tell if something is amiss... At least that will 100% rule out the gas. If that's ok, I guess I'll buy a new regulator and torch, and if thats ok, I'll buy a new welder while I send this out to be repaired. I wouldn't object to get a new welder anyway; this is the pre "blue lightning" version, and ever since day1 it's had this HF start issue ( i.e. It doesn't) which the pre blue lightings are occasionally known for.
    Last edited by Dave_C; 06-18-2017 at 12:45 PM. Reason: Typo

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    Replace the back cap on your torch. The o-ring dries out. It's very hard to notice that leak but it will suck in air. It's happened to me before and was very frustrating till I figured it out. I now check and replace the o-ring regularly.

    Other place to check is the short line between the 200dx gas output and your torch line. I've had cracks develop in mine due to the tight bend causing air intrusion.

    Teryk

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

  4. #24
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    I've replaced all of the parts on my torch that can be replaced including the two white plastic rings each side of the head. I will recheck the welder downstream connections with the gas flowing however...

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    I wonder if tank #2 in your post #11has been filled with Argon/CO2 mix by mistake.

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    Have a ck worldwide wf3 tig wirefeeder with very little hrs on it if anyone is interested..I'm in Salinas Calif

    Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

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    Well, I tried it again this morning and the welder was immediately better than yesterday. All I'd done differently was turned the gas back on. I literally picked up the torch, turned gas and welder on, and it was a lot better. Still not right, but enough to tell me that the gas is not the issue. I also took a bottle to my work fab shop, and talked through the issue with their welder. My argon was just fine on his 300DX welder, but the thing I noticed was how smooth and consistent his arc was; I don't remember the last time I heard an arc that steady. Mine as always been occasionally erratic; but it's now god awful.
    I then took my welder, torch, pedal, regulator - everything - to the local shop for them to diagnose. I'm thinking of upgrading to a 210DX and after this is repaired, keeping as a backup, or simply selling it... I should be able to get $1500 for a known, demonstrated working 200dx which should soften the sale price on a new one!

  8. #28
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    Yes
    Always turn the gas on
    Peter

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  10. #29
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    Fee-fi-fo-fum, I smell the blood of a bad dynasty. If replacing it the 300 is a better upgrade.

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    Just to clarify - the dynasty did a junk weld the last time I used it, I placed the torch on the bench, turned the gas and welder off and walked away. Today, i turned on the gas and welder, and it did an ok weld. Not great, but not the scattery crap it had been doing the previous day.

    Rons, what you think of the 210DX - heard anything bad about that?

  12. #31
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    Dave_C, I sure hope it is not you machine. But I opted to buy a Syncrowave 350 machine partly because I didn't like what a service manager told me about the inverter machines he had repaired. Inverters are smaller, lighter, and welds can gain a little deeper penetration. But when they get flaky you are in for a world of hurt.

    I have not heard anything bad about the 210DX. As far as semiconductors go, if you are going to max out a 210DX it's probably better to get a 300 machine. Components are stressed less, longer life span.

    Visit Miller - Welding Equipment - MIG/TIG/Stick Welders & Plasma Cutting forum and become a member. See what has been said about your machine. You can bet that your problem has been seen before.

    I found this. Might be of help.
    Miller Dynasty 2DX problem at first

    Here is a guy with a custom cart.
    Miller Syncrowave 200 or Dynasty 200DX ?

    American Welding Society is another source to look. Try doing all the maintenance items in your manual, such as blowing out dust in the unit. See if you spot a circuit board component that has a scorch mark from heat. Contact Miller support too. You don't deserve to shell out for a new DX if you don't have to.

  13. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by dave powelson View Post
    -soap check all connections from the regulator/bottle valve to machine, out to torch connections
    -check actual gas flow out of torch cup with flow indicator
    -if one's using any chinese torch consumables-trash 'em (they collapse/etc.)
    -replace any collets showing any sign of bulging/swelling--even CK wedge collets do that-now,
    which is disappointing.
    -verify actual fit of cup to teflon insulator, back cap o-ring to torch body, verify that's what actually supposed to
    be on said torch per mfg. ass'y. breakdown

    --as others have mentioned, after that initial pressure 'burst' as solenoid opens the flow to the torch,
    the flow down the hose, thru the fittings CAN and DOES pull in minute amounts of air for contamination.
    Venturi effect/brownian movement--whatever---it happens, even if you can't get your head around this;
    you're seeing the result.

    --try new torch and leads or at least--replace back cap, cup, teflon insulator, collet, collet body with new

    THINK....what consumables/etc. did you change out before encountering this?

    [In 29 years I've had one bad Ar bottle---but prior to changing bottle--one verifies all these lettle, pesky details.
    Fill plants are getting sloppier and sloppier in their filling. The same bad bottle order also came with a completely empty,
    75/25 Ar/CO2 bottle--which I got charged full boat for.]
    Absolutely check every possible leak point in your process as well as anything plugged.
    Just as above post my family has been in this business since 1921, we use both liquid and compressed Argon.
    And both owner(COC, customer owned cylinders)and exchange cylinders, To this day I cannot recall a problem with the gas, always with the process.

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    Well I thought I'd give a brief update.
    I got an answer back from the repair shop; they could find nothing wrong with my dynasty. I took them everything from the torch to the Regulator. But I already know from my last set of testing , that it can be erratic in its operation.
    I might try it over the weekend, but I'm picking up a new 210DX today. I did look at the synch, but the infinite portability of the dyn is why I like it so much. Several times I've plugged it into 120v where there was nothing else available and it was a diamond.

  15. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave_C View Post
    I got an answer back from the repair shop; they could find nothing wrong with my dynasty.
    That reminds me about the few times I took a vehicle with a problem back to the dealer. They drive it around the block and find no problem.

    You now your dynasty better than anyone. I was thinking that you might check your grounding network. Anyway, there is that old saying: Two Dynasty's in every garage.

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  17. #35
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    Another quick update...
    I LOVE the 210DX.
    It feels like the day I got my 200DX several years ago.

    The good:
    Validation that I'm not mad!

    Relief that my torch / lines and other stuff is good and I didn't drop $4k for nothing.

    The fact that I can restart an arc while post flow is on (that inability really pissed me off on my old machine)...

    The fact that the HF arc is consistent and happens EVERY time (was about 75% first time with the old machine).

    The power switch is on the front.

    All the extra "secret" functions I didn't get on the old one that I could never get to experiment with because it was "pre blue-lightning".

    The SD card slot so I can download and update firmware myself.

    The arc focus goes EXACTLY where I want it to go, even at 120Hz, instead of wandering off wherever - I just rewelded something I did 2 weeks ago with my old machine that kicked my arse and I couldn't understand why; I just put it down to being tired at the time. I'm just as tired right now, but I welded it like a ninja :-)


    The "hmmmm, not so sure":

    Creates a massive "cleaning" etching on the HF arc when starting - hopefully this can be dialed back in one of the many background settings.

    2% lanth tungsten (same one I was using that turned black with the old welder when it was 'unwell', but worked perfectly and lasted well before that) develops "whiskers" on the point that I've not seen on my old machine. Need to do some long welds and see if this is from HF arc start, or the weld itself. Not sure if these are causing an issue, but they do seem to create a little arc scatter compared to a fresh ground tip.

    Perhaps as an example of the strong HF arc, if you lay the Tig torch hose on your (grounded) bench with the torch head well away from the table and press the go pedal, you can hear the arc escaping through the torch hose!!!


    I'll report back soon with more.


    Anyone want to buy a dynasty 200 DX? LOL

  18. #36
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    Here is graphic describing the effect of balance and frequency on AC welding from Miller documentation.

    wave-shape.jpg

  19. #37
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    I already know that info (but it is a good image)... . This simply has a massive etching circle around the HF arc at startup. Once you're welding with a stable arc it has a narrow or wide etching, depending on what you choose.


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