Wilton Bench Vise Swivel Mod

David Dominessy · Feb 21, 2017

I decided that I was going to get a new vise and was going to jump into the Wilton 450 machinist vise. This vise is respectable in it's own right. I toyed with the idea of swivel or rigid base? I knew the rigid base would cause less problems under heavy loads and I wouldn't have to worry over the swivel locks slipping or getting galled. However, I also wasn't excited about losing the flexibility I need in a small shop from a swivel base vise.
I decided to put the vise on a pedestal and transfer the swivel ability from the vise to the pedestal. After all was said and done it's exactly what I hoped it would be with one problem.
Please review the pictures and maybe the video and help me with a nuisance problem I discovered. Under certain circumstances the vise vibrates due to the hollow 2.5 inch round column. I was thinking of filling it with concrete? I wonder if that'll be a problem?
Thank you

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Youtube Video of Project (short)
Bench Vise Super Swivel Mod! - YouTube

steve45 · Feb 21, 2017

Filling with concrete will probably help. Mounting on a free standing post will invite vibration, the larger the pipe, the better.

Bill D · Feb 21, 2017

Since you move it around I would not add weight of concrete. I would paint inside with a thick coat of rubber. Something like liquid roofing rubber, bed liner. I have a bucket of rubber grafting seal I picked up for free years ago.
Bill D.

dgfoster · Feb 21, 2017

I am thinking the "problem" is that the vise pedestal rings annoyingly when striking something in the vise. If that is true, filling the pipe with sand or steel or lead shot may help deaden it. Even filling it with a bazillion 1/4" ball bearings would help. Think dead blow hammer. The less prone to ringing the filler is the better. Concrete is less prone to ring than steel, but it still certainly will ring. [I lived in a large multilevel dorm many years ago and one joker used to take advantage of that phenomenon by letting his 20# barbell weight spin to the floor over and over. That noise transmitted up and down the ten-story building walls and floors. ].

BTW,it may not be necessary to fill the entire pipe, maybe plug the lower half and fill the upper half with sand or shot. Not much to lose trying it. Could be done by simply drilling a hole and pouring in deadener.

Denis

Scottl · Feb 21, 2017

Don't fill it with concrete. Use non-shrinking grout instead. To make the heavier pedestal easier to move add some fixed casters mounted so they only touch the floor when the pedestal is leaned over.

If it still rings too much add some rubber to the outside of the column.

James H Clark · Feb 21, 2017

Not trying to be sarcastic, but you have mounted your vise on top of a tuning fork (or least one tine). I would lose the swivel joint with the set screws and also use a thick walled piece of square tubing of at least 4" size. With the amount of overhang you have, you need more rigidity. With the portable base, you shouldn't need the swivel.

JH

ECJ · Feb 21, 2017

We have at least one vise of that size mounted on a post (which is bolted to a concrete floor), and that post is 4" in diameter with a 1/4" wall and it still moves. That 2 1/2" tube is woefully undersized for a vise of that size and quality. No amount of concrete, mortar or rubber is going to stop it from moving.

On a separate but related note, I don't know what you guys are doing on/with your swivel vises that are causing them to move. We've got several swivel base vises around the shop (these are good quality Wiltons and Morgans), and we've never really had a problem with the swivel lock. If you've got to do some real disaster management and beat the living hell out of something, then you should not be doing that in the same vise that handles your parts requiring finesse and delicacy. It is unfair to both.

ECJ

BobRenz · Feb 21, 2017

The old rule of thumb we used to use for pedestal mounting a vise was 1" of tube diameter per inch of vise size. One of the "portable" shop vises we had was a 6" vise on a chunk of 6" pipe - the base was a freight car wheel. We did similar for bench grinders as well.

David Dominessy · Feb 21, 2017

These are great suggestions! I don't ever move the vise around, it's bolted with female red heads to the floor (4). I do think a bigger pipe is in order for sure. The problem is not necessarily any flexing as much as vibration when hammering. As was posted above it's become a tuning fork. I'll try the non shrinking grout. If that doesn't quench the vibrations then I'll tear it down and fab up a pedestal with a much larger pipe and fill it from the beginning with something to deaden.
With long work a large lever is created and I've had some trouble with swivel locks in the past. I will say they weren't Wiltons though.
Thank you all for your wise help!

EPAIII · Feb 21, 2017

The Wilton 450 is a 4.5" jaw vise. You were worried about movement so you skipped the swivel base but you mounted it on a 2.5" steel tube. Well, at least the steel tube appears to be somewhat thick walled, not fence post. You don't say if tube is on a flat base, sitting on the floor or if it is embedded in concrete. I am guessing a flat base.

As someone above said, it is one half of a tuning fork and one with a heavy weight on the end to boot. And if it is on a metal flat base, that base can slip and slide. Just what did you expect?

I have my 5" Wilton, SWIVEL BASE mounted on the corner of a work bench that sits in the middle of my shop. The Wilton swivel base has a real nice feature that I discovered after getting it. It has TWO lock down screws on opposite sides of the vise and they are about four inches apart. They do a very good job of locking it down. Probably a lot more resistant to rotation than your two set screws on that 2.5" diameter tube. And they lock it DOWN, not sideways like your arrangement. Your sideways arrangement would be prone to rotation about a horizontal axis formed by those set screws and the opposite side of the support column. It is not a good design - IMHO anyway.

My workbench is constructed of two-by lumber with 4x4 legs. I added diagonal braces on both ends to prevent rocking back to front. So far, it has not moved any noticeable amount during work in the vise or at any other time. This is a very solid way to mount a vise. And the Wilton swivel is a lot better than any one that I could have made at a price that would have been even close to affordable. About the only thing that would make it more stable would be to put the workbench against a wall (exterior masonry if possible) and tying it firmly to that wall with lag bolts.

If you have a flat, metal base under it, one thing you could try would be to put a layer of wood between that base and the (concrete?) floor. It should be firmly attached to the metal base to prevent any sliding. The wood to concrete contact area should better resist sliding movements than metal on concrete. Even if your floor is wood, wood to wood contact would be better than wood to metal. And add some diagonal braces, three or better yet, four of them. That will brace your tuning fork against vibration. They can be metal but wood would also work. If you use metal with a relatively thin cross section (rod, angle, rectangle, etc.) then add two or three, horizontal cross braces to keep it from bending. In other words, good structural design.

Personally, I would move it to a good, SOLID bench, like mine. I have an old, 4" Sears, Craftsman vise that would be a good match for your 2.5" column.

sfriedberg · Feb 21, 2017

ECJ said:
On a separate but related note, I don't know what you guys are doing on/with your swivel vises that are causing them to move. We've got several swivel base vises around the shop (these are good quality Wiltons and Morgans), and we've never really had a problem with the swivel lock.

I've got a (non-swivel) Wilton 450N directly mounted to a 250lb worktable, and I occasionally scootch the table across the floor slightly when bending something held in the vise. A typical bench vise swivel mount just won't handle that sort of torque, which is why I got a 450N instead of a 450S.

Whetstone · Feb 21, 2017

I agree with the others that the tube is undersized. I built my vise stand from 4" square tube (1/8" wall) and it still flexes. Next time I make a stand Ill use some 8" pipe with a 1/2" wall. I was able to stiffen up my stand by welding some flat bar gussets to it. You could weld (4) 4" x 1/4" bars to the whole length of the tube in a "X" shape, that should help significantly.

Garwood · Feb 23, 2017

I have a few decent non-wilton vises in my shop. My primary vise is a 6" Simplex mounted to a 4500 lb 15' long steel table. It has a swivel. I have used that vise in concert with a 48" pipe wrench (and probably some cheater pipes). Never had the swivel flinch.

That pedestal does not do that vise justice. I'd go 8" square tube 1/2" wall.

David Dominessy · Feb 23, 2017

EPAIII said:
The Wilton 450 is a 4.5" jaw vise. You were worried about movement so you skipped the swivel base but you mounted it on a 2.5" steel tube. Well, at least the steel tube appears to be somewhat thick walled, not fence post. You don't say if tube is on a flat base, sitting on the floor or if it is embedded in concrete. I am guessing a flat base.

As someone above said, it is one half of a tuning fork and one with a heavy weight on the end to boot. And if it is on a metal flat base, that base can slip and slide. Just what did you expect?

I have my 5" Wilton, SWIVEL BASE mounted on the corner of a work bench that sits in the middle of my shop. The Wilton swivel base has a real nice feature that I discovered after getting it. It has TWO lock down screws on opposite sides of the vise and they are about four inches apart. They do a very good job of locking it down. Probably a lot more resistant to rotation than your two set screws on that 2.5" diameter tube. And they lock it DOWN, not sideways like your arrangement. Your sideways arrangement would be prone to rotation about a horizontal axis formed by those set screws and the opposite side of the support column. It is not a good design - IMHO anyway.

My workbench is constructed of two-by lumber with 4x4 legs. I added diagonal braces on both ends to prevent rocking back to front. So far, it has not moved any noticeable amount during work in the vise or at any other time. This is a very solid way to mount a vise. And the Wilton swivel is a lot better than any one that I could have made at a price that would have been even close to affordable. About the only thing that would make it more stable would be to put the workbench against a wall (exterior masonry if possible) and tying it firmly to that wall with lag bolts.

If you have a flat, metal base under it, one thing you could try would be to put a layer of wood between that base and the (concrete?) floor. It should be firmly attached to the metal base to prevent any sliding. The wood to concrete contact area should better resist sliding movements than metal on concrete. Even if your floor is wood, wood to wood contact would be better than wood to metal. And add some diagonal braces, three or better yet, four of them. That will brace your tuning fork against vibration. They can be metal but wood would also work. If you use metal with a relatively thin cross section (rod, angle, rectangle, etc.) then add two or three, horizontal cross braces to keep it from bending. In other words, good structural design.

Personally, I would move it to a good, SOLID bench, like mine. I have an old, 4" Sears, Craftsman vise that would be a good match for your 2.5" column.

Thanks for the help. Vise is bolted to floor. Always has been. There's a locking screw with sheer of 8,700 lbs so it's not twisting that off as suggested. The two set screws are for lighter work but are near impossible to make slip any way. It's solid as it's thick wall. I agree with larger pipe as real problem is not rigidity but vibration. I like the idea of 6" pipe, heavy wall.
I use it daily and it doesn't slip or flex or skip. But, it chatters like crazy when hammering.
Great suggestions! And, thank you! Now, off to scrap yard for some Real Pipe!

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