Thread: Custom-corrugated sheet steel panels needed for my DIY project. Scotland / Britain

Originally Posted by adama

Who? you gotta share the details if it works out as there is a lot of us here that would probably have work for them if they can do it meeting your requirements and price.

The last thing I need is you and every other practical machinist contacting this guy with new offers of work so that he has got no time to do my job.

Originally Posted by Peter Dow

The last thing I need is you and every other practical machinist contacting this guy with new offers of work so that he has got no time to do my job.

So it`s a one way street with you.You want info from us but not prepared to share.
You must be a native Aberdonian,they never give anything away.

Originally Posted by Mark McGrath

So it`s a one way street with you.

No, more like I need my own parking place right now.

Originally Posted by Mark McGrath

You want info from us but not prepared to share.

I have shared plenty of details of the panels I want to make and various ways to make them. Very handy information for anyone who wants to make my panels for me.

Originally Posted by Mark McGrath

You must be a native Aberdonian,they never give anything away.

No I was born a Fifer. I didn't come to Aberdeen until I was 30 years old.

Originally Posted by Peter Dow

No I was born a Fifer. I didn't come to Aberdeen until I was 30 years old.

I just hope for both our sakes that Hood doesn`t see this.

Actually being a Fifer is a good start on your way to being an Aberdonian.

LOl personally I'm with the Romans, we should not have stopped maintaining that wall a couple of millenniums ago :-) Been nothing but trouble since.

Originally Posted by adama

LOl personally I'm with the Romans, we should not have stopped maintaining that wall a couple of millenniums ago :-) Been nothing but trouble since.

Their first job should have been a trench down the English/Welsh border and then floated Wales of into the Irish sea,would saved a lot of bother over the years.

Originally Posted by Mark McGrath

Their first job should have been a trench down the English/Welsh border and then floated Wales of into the Irish sea,would saved a lot of bother over the years.

True Mark. I couldn't believe they actually built the new bridge over the severn back along. I'd have let the old one crumble

Back to the OP, life seems too short for all this mullarky to me - I'd be using tiles

Well Peter,as you`re a Fifer I suppose you have tried Fife Fab,Phoenix Precision and Stevenson Grantech for your project.All sheetmetal companies based in Glenrothes.

Originally Posted by Mark McGrath

Well Peter,as you`re a Fifer

I was born in Fife and lived there until about age 7 when I moved to Clackmannanshire.

So I lived in Fife for 7 years. I have lived in Aberdeen for 21 years.

Originally Posted by Mark McGrath

I suppose you have tried Fife Fab,

• Fife Fabrications - declined 24 November, 2010

Originally Posted by Mark McGrath

Phoenix Precision

• Phoenix Precision - declined 28 September, 2010 - "out with our manufacturing capability"

Originally Posted by Mark McGrath

and Stevenson Grantech for your project.

• Stevenson Grantech - 25 November, 2010 - no reply to my message using their website contact form

Originally Posted by Mark McGrath

All sheetmetal companies based in Glenrothes.

Another Glenrothes company who declined -

• Remenco - 28 July, 2011 - " we do not have the capability to produce this part"

I have contacted hundreds of companies across Britain and so Glenrothes is no different from most places.

At least Remenco were telling the truth when they said they didn`t have the capability.The rest were telling you they didn`t want involved.
Doesn`t all this feedback from companies who can do the job tell you something?

Originally Posted by Mark McGrath

At least Remenco were telling the truth when they said they didn`t have the capability.The rest were telling you they didn`t want involved.
Doesn`t all this feedback from companies who can do the job tell you something?

It is a lot cheaper, quicker and easier all round for me to request quotes to do this job than it is for a precision sheet metal fabricator company with a reasonably well equipped workshop, including a good press brake with a wide range of tooling etc. actually to do it.

The tight specification of the job also falls between a couple of stools namely that the available thicknesses of sheet stainless steel and the available V-die sizes do not match.

Although a suitable 6 mm V-die tool is available off the shelf, the matching 1 mm thick sheet steel is not so easily available.

Although 0.9 mm thick sheet steel is commonly available, the nearly matching 5 mm V-die is rare, although it is listed in the Amada catalogue, it isn't available from many other tooling manufacturers who do sell a 4 mm V, a 6 mm, a 7 mm and a 8 mm Vs but not a 5 mm V. (Even then a 5 mm V die is not a perfect match to 0.9 mm thick sheet, whereas a "5.4 mm V" would be a perfect match but does not exist).

So no matter who I got to there will likely be a need for new or modified tooling which makes it more expensive to do.

Combine that with a limited budget on my part and it adds up to a job that is easy to ask to be done but difficult to do right and since I am obviously the kind of rigorous guy who needs it done right most people decide pass on the opportunity to quote.

Originally Posted by Peter Dow

It is a lot cheaper, quicker and easier all round for me to request quotes to do this job than it is for a precision sheet metal fabricator company with a reasonably well equipped workshop, including a good press brake with a wide range of tooling etc. actually to do it.

The tight specification of the job also falls between a couple of stools namely that the available thicknesses of sheet stainless steel and the available V-die sizes do not match.

Although a suitable 6 mm V-die tool is available off the shelf, the matching 1 mm thick sheet steel is not so easily available.

Although 0.9 mm thick sheet steel is commonly available, the nearly matching 5 mm V-die is rare, although it is listed in the Amada catalogue, it isn't available from many other tooling manufacturers who do sell a 4 mm V, a 6 mm, a 7 mm and a 8 mm Vs but not a 5 mm V. (Even then a 5 mm V die is not a perfect match to 0.9 mm thick sheet, whereas a "5.4 mm V" would be a perfect match but does not exist).

So no matter who I got to there will likely be a need for new or modified tooling which makes it more expensive to do.

Combine that with a limited budget on my part and it adds up to a job that is easy to ask to be done but difficult to do right and since I am obviously the kind of rigorous guy who needs it done right most people decide pass on the opportunity to quote.

So suumming up, you want parts made;- out of a not so easy to find material, that probably require special tooling, to a tight specification, at a price of basicaly your choosing,............ and you're not getting any takers.

?? strange that (or maybe not),........ The harsh economic realities of running a shop that has to provide a living for it's owners and workers must dictate what work they take on.

Conversely, yes we put a man on the moon, but it didn't come cheap.

Originally Posted by Limy Sami

So suumming up, you want parts made;- out of a not so easy to find material, that probably require special tooling, to a tight specification, at a price of basicaly your choosing,............ and you're not getting any takers.

?? strange that (or maybe not),........ The harsh economic realities of running a shop that has to provide a living for it's owners and workers must dictate what work they take on.

Conversely, yes we put a man on the moon, but it didn't come cheap.

No like I said, I got a good quote on Friday so I have now found one "taker", hopefully.

Now we are two weeks down the road,when will we see the first production pieces?

Originally Posted by Mark McGrath

Now we are two weeks down the road,when will we see the first production pieces?

It is only you who is two weeks down the road. I am two years down the road more like.

The chap who provided me with a good quote has stopped answering my emails, unfortunately.

I have found quite a nice die for the job.



The DX 522001 is very pricey at £316 for a 835 mm length, compared to the £127 for the same length of the 5 mm / 9 mm double V-die.

A chamfer where indicated in the diagram of the DX 522001 may allow for the option of re-bending of a bend in a completed panel - which might be handy if there are any curves, warps or distortions in the panel which could be straightened out by selective increasing the degrees bent in certain bends.

The double V-die tool does not allow for re-visiting any bend so one faulty bend could ruin the whole panel.

Originally Posted by Peter Dow

It is only you who is two weeks down the road. I am two years down the road more like.

The chap who provided me with a good quote has stopped answering my emails, unfortunately.

I`ll take your two points one at a time.

1/ You are not two years down the road.You have got nothing made and nobody lined up to do it therefore you are still at the starting gate.Saying you are two years down the road is saying you have made progress,you have not.

2/ I find it really hard to understand why two years after starting to look for a supplier you have not understood why nobody wants to quote or why ones who do stop talking to you very soon after the initial contact.

Sometimes I wonder if you are just a dreamer,you`re not a project engineer for sure.I don`t mean that nastily but I think you need to rethink how you have gone about this and how you approach possible suppliers.
Drop all the pretty drawings,the tooling examples and costs and the how to`s.The people who can do your job know how to do it,they have the tooling or suppliers for tooling in place and they know how to use their machines.
If you need a form on your part that`s not possible with standard tooling then let the people making the part tell you that.If you don`t agree with the price of the tooling then ask if you can supply it.Off course if you supply the tooling and the part does not turn out as required then you still have to pay for the part.(You can`t have your cake and eat it.)
And lastly,you have to pay what it`s going to cost.The companies who will do work for a dictated price are in that position for a reason and it`s not because they were turning out good quality work or providing excellent service.

Edit: I`ve just sold a pressbrake to a guy down in Wales,will I give him your contact details?

Originally Posted by barbter

Back to the OP, life seems too short for all this mullarky to me - I'd be using tiles

This bloke talked a lot of sense. Tiles all the way.

Mark - you really can't like the Welsh

Originally Posted by barbter

Mark - you really can't like the Welsh

I don`t think I said that anywhere,in fact I know I have never said it anywhere.

Maybe a cheaper route to a corrugating die set can be had by modifying one of a press brake offset die pair?

Press brake offset dies (YouTube)
Video shows a press brake offset die pair being used to create an offset, joggle or narrow return bend in a sheet of metal.

The offset dies are not suitable for corrugating as they are off the shelf because if you try to make an offset bend pair too close to a previous offset bend pair the previous bends foul the tool.

Maybe though a simple modification by grinding or machining one of the offset dies would allow offset bends to be placed right next to each other, forming corrugations?

The Italian firm "Rolleri" have a catalogue of press brake dies and their range of offset dies is in handy 0.5 mm increment sizes of interest.



So selecting their 5.5 mm "CEZ 5,5" offset die as an example to plan a modification for, here could be the grinding or machining modification required for corrugating.



The basic idea is shown in this diagram with

• the yellow colour indicating the position of the sheet and raised position of the standard offset die top tool before the press action, and
  
• the purple colour indicating the new bend on the sheet and the position of the top tool when the press brake presses it down.

If modifying the Rolleri offset tools there would be a further problem with the descending sheet at 45 degrees not clearing bottom tool holder.



I suggest that this problem might be solved by soldering, brazing or welding a base to the bottom modified offset tool as shown here.



For wider sheets that I would like to have made, the fact that the sheet descends at 45 degrees at both the front and the back of the press brake could cause a problem of the sheet fouling some press brake's back-gauge, though perhaps that could be overcome by removing the back-gauge?

One other possibility might be to swap the top and bottom offset dies around and have the 45 degrees going upwards, though this would require a more difficult task to position the sheet for bending.

This can never be a one man job.
Simple as that. Someone has to hold the sheet at the back side of the press from bouncing around.
Two guys have to do the turning and flipping at the front of the brake.

I hate to say it Peter, but you're in fantasy land about this whole project coming out at a cost you can afford.

BTW, when your modified offset die starts pulling the material down, its going to also pull against the custom ground out part and more than likely open up the previous bend from 90*. I believe the horizontal flats are like that so the material can be drawn in as the bends are being made.