Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 48
  1. #1
    lalatheman's Avatar
    lalatheman is offline Cast Iron
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Western ,Oh ,usa
    Posts
    388

    Post

    I've been using 6013 for all my stick welding
    now that my AC buzz box quit I tried to weld With dc stick and I don't know . . . . It just wasn't working well Neg polariy worked best but still wasn't too good. Tried several amp settings . Using a lincoln 175 TIG /DC stick welder.

    Thinking I need different rod to weld An I beam ?

    Dave Lawrence

  2. #2
    JL Sargent is offline Titanium
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Posts
    3,999

    Post

    For good penetration with DC I would recommend electode pos. I use alot of 7018 rod on DC electrode +. If Im tig welding then flip back to electrode -.

  3. #3
    swellwelder is offline Hot Rolled
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Valley City, ND USA
    Posts
    914

    Post

    If you are looking for the best penetrating rod get ahold of some 6010 (also known as Lincoln 5p) This rod is used (at least used to be used) on pipeline welding in the downhill direction, and still had adequate penetration for such things. It is run in reverse polarity, if I remember right that is electrode positive, but I have been known to be wrong. You will know real quick if you have it hooked up wrong. It will spatter and do almost anything else but weld!

    Dale Nelson

  4. #4
    lalatheman's Avatar
    lalatheman is offline Cast Iron
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Western ,Oh ,usa
    Posts
    388

    Post

    JL thanks, i'll get some 7018 and work with it.

    Swell , thanks , I'll get 6010 and work with it too

    Dave Lawrence

  5. #5
    wippin' boy is offline Diamond
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    il.
    Posts
    5,434

    Post

    i agree
    6010 for root pass for penetration
    7018 over top for strength and pretty is a tried and true "stick em together"
    .
    you should work on that uphill though as that is the preferred applicatin method.
    don't be surprised if you get alot of "dog nu__"
    thats a t and an s (welding lingo)
    the first couple of trys... the trick is the fact that you are actually holding the puddle up with the arc, so speed is very important to get it to lay in right.
    if you figure it out in less than 3 lbs. of rod your a natural.

  6. #6
    TOMWELDS is offline Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    westchester county N.Y.
    Posts
    20

    Post

    I agree with Wippin boy. Also, bevel the 2 pieces before welding.

  7. #7
    lalatheman's Avatar
    lalatheman is offline Cast Iron
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Western ,Oh ,usa
    Posts
    388

    Post

    Ok I'll bevie and go with 6010 root and 7018 overlay. I'll get a practice setup and see what I can do before doing the actual I beam. It is a hoist rail.

    Dave Lawrence

  8. #8
    wippin' boy is offline Diamond
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    il.
    Posts
    5,434

    Post

    if your doin' "overhead lifting eq."

    an over lay piece of steel on top would be good.
    support the joint as much as you can. i put 1/4 wall tubing on top of the beam with a couple of half inch holes in it. then i take some half inch threaded rod up to the truss (grade 5 if you can get it, yes www.mcmastercarr.com ) and build a saddle clamp around the bottom of the truss with a couple pieces of 1/2 or better plate.
    .
    .give us some more info and we can all help

  9. #9
    northof54 is offline Aluminum
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    88

    Post

    Please don't experiment or learn welding processes while building overhead lifting components. Lots of people have done it, but with luck or good coaching. You have some good coaching here- 6010 is THE root pass rod of choice. 7018 AFTER the root is cleaned (chipped & ground). The root pass is usually nasty looking & there reqiures cleanup. Vertical 7018 is also done UP ('stackin dimes'). Clean after each pass.

    No competent welder would choose to weld vertical or overhead (lifting application) if turning the weldment were an option. Roll the beam as you weld it.
    mike

  10. #10
    wippin' boy is offline Diamond
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    il.
    Posts
    5,434

    Post

    thanks mike

    it's makes me a little nervous too.
    .
    and yes horiz. is better.. my uphill remark was to discorage the use of down hill even if it will stick a pipe
    .
    but with the world today he may have only 2 choices."my way or the highway".
    if not this type of senario then overhead lifting eq. is NOT the place to learn
    and if that is the case we can try to get this done right.
    externally supported the weld integrety is of much less concern..it just becomes a smooth transition in the beam for the trolly...
    gettin' the stuff hung is the deal that HAS to be right

  11. #11
    northof54 is offline Aluminum
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    florida
    Posts
    88

    Post

    whippin' boy-
    I think we're on the same page; let's get it done so that no one get's hurt.

    What is the size ( span, web, flange, thickenss)?
    Where is the splice (center or 4' from one end)?
    What is the trolley load?

    mike

  12. #12
    Idealarc is offline Aluminum
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Macon, GA
    Posts
    85

    Post

    The 6011 electrode was designed exclusively for AC, is easily controlled in all positions and has excellent penetration. It is also very well suited to painted and/or rusted metal with very little joint prep/cleanup if any at all. The 7018 is a good rod, but unless you are experienced with it, the danger of slag trap inclusion outweighs the advantage of the higher tensile strength. Unless you run some pretty smooth beads, you will ususually have to grind the joint in order to remove all of the slag pockets. The 5P is a good all position rod, but is better suited to DC current. The 6011 and the 6010 5P both clean up a lot easier. As to the strength of the 6011, we used virtually nothing but that on all of our housemoving equipment. Common setup was to butt weld 3/4" plates (approx. 4"x6")to the tailboard plates on our winch trucks. Thereby placing ALL of the weight on the the two brackets. When I say weight, I'm talking about lifting a house off of the foundation. While I don't know what your project is, I doubt you would subject your welds to more strain than that. We never had any trouble at all. Proper joint prep, proper heat setting and electrode technique, and you should'nt have any trouble. The 6011 also runs very smooth on DC as well.

  13. #13
    JL Sargent is offline Titanium
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Posts
    3,999

    Post

    Slag pockets with 7018? I guess thats so. I usually just tap the slag and it breaks off in large ribbons kinda like a snakes skin. I would say a bunch of trapped slag is about welder and welding conditions and less about 7018 rod. That said I have been welding with it for 25yrs.

    Until you can weld beads of 7018 rod without trapping slag I would suggest staying away from welding any overhead crane or hoist beams.

  14. #14
    wippin' boy is offline Diamond
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    il.
    Posts
    5,434

    Post

    I think we all agree sarg....
    not a good spot for learning
    .
    so...ever do any hand held submered arc....talk about a snake this stuff was an anconda, the wire was about an 1/8 of an inch
    ..you could lay a 3/4 deep by 3/4 wide veed butt in one pass....couldn't see nothin just had to listen to the slurp of it layin in.....used to use it on a c-channel assmbly that holds the moboard on a 1450 case dozer...
    coolest crap i ever had my hands on.
    .
    not tryin' to change the subject, the snake skin analogy just brought back some fond memories of bein' a full time sparky back in the 70's

  15. #15
    lalatheman's Avatar
    lalatheman is offline Cast Iron
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Western ,Oh ,usa
    Posts
    388

    Post

    The beam is o the ground now and I will turn It so I am always welding downhand. I won't even start on the beam till I find out how the new welder and rod performs. After the beam is all welded I'll apply a large patch piece to the top and bottom.

    Dave Lawrence

  16. #16
    Idealarc is offline Aluminum
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Macon, GA
    Posts
    85

    Post

    Well, JL Sargent, I don't believe that I suggested that the 7018 itself caused slag traps, I just know that in the hands of someone who is not experienced with it, that it is very easy for it to happen. While I in no way am belittling the original poster, I did gather that his experience is somewhat limited, although growing. As to the slag peeling in long strips,yes it will, if your heat range is correct. But, as you know, the arc length on a 7018 is critical in order to maintain and control it. The 6011/6010 electrodes are much more forgiving and more easily controlled in all postions. Furthermore, you will agree, that a 7018 runs much better on DC than on an AC buzzbox.

  17. #17
    JL Sargent is offline Titanium
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Birmingham, AL
    Posts
    3,999

    Post

    Furthermore, you will agree, that a 7018 runs much better on DC than on an AC buzzbox.
    Sure seems like it to me, but I've always wondered if the actual strength of the weld is really any better if skill and weld prep are equal.

    Early on I welded some heavy structural with AC and with no known problems. I do weld as I recommended above mostly now but those old AC welds were fine as far as I could tell.

  18. #18
    Idealarc is offline Aluminum
    Join Date
    Aug 2005
    Location
    Macon, GA
    Posts
    85

    Post

    JL, after reading your post, I should probably change "runs better" to " burns smoother", as the strength of the weld should be equal, assuming all things - electrode speed, arc length, heat range, etc. are in sync. Some years ago, I bought a practically new Lincoln Idealarc AC machine (infinite current control) and it seemed to run the 7018 just fine- perhaps as smooth as DC. So yes, I would agree with you that there is not any difference in the strength of the weld. The 7018 is a fine electrode, just a bit more finicky. The drawback on a buzz box is that most of them have current steps and not infinite control, although seems I have seen some small units with the infinite control.

    John

  19. #19
    lalatheman's Avatar
    lalatheman is offline Cast Iron
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Western ,Oh ,usa
    Posts
    388

    Post

    While HOT on sthe subject of 7018 isn't there a 7018 and then a 7018AC designed , designated and intended for AC arc. At the novice frendly Home Depot and Lowes Both of which still (My God it's amazing) sell Rod welders
    ( Lincoln AC Buzz box) They have Lincoln Rod in 5 Lb pkg. planely labeled 7818AC
    Well on the initial advise of this thread I had decided to get 6010 for root pass , 7018 to go over that. Well my local Weiller welind store wants $4.93 /per LB X 5 Lb = 25$ + tax for 5 lb of 6010.
    OK The Depot wants $7.98 for 5 lb of Lincoln (hey Lincoln is now NASCAR ***LICENSED*** Whew, I am certainly impressed !! ) 6011 Of course Lowes and the Depot don't have 6010 or "real" 7018. . . . . So at Weiller I didn't spring for 5 lb at $25 for the "root pass rod" recommended by the Pro's. . . .you guys. . . . Went back to the Depot all they have is 6011 ( really an AC rod , huh ? ) And an apperantly bastard ??? 7018AC lincoln rod . OK I have now a Lincoln Precision TIG 175 that does rod in DC , My venerable Legacy Lincoln AC Buzz box 225 has apperantly died ( Secondary resistance is infinate) So for stick I'm just looking at dc ROD.

    This I beam is 4" web X 2 3/4 width. I'm about to just slap a 1" X 2" X 24" patch on top and bottom burn it in with about 5 passes of well cleaned 6013 and not even weld the I Beam at all . Its 4 ft long ( consisting of two 2 foot long pieces butted ) I have a cute little 500 lb rated trolly I wannta put it over my 15" swing LeBlond dualdrive to change the 65 LB four jaw chuck.

    Dave Lawrence

  20. #20
    lalatheman's Avatar
    lalatheman is offline Cast Iron
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Western ,Oh ,usa
    Posts
    388

    Post

    While HOT on sthe subject of 7018 isn't there a 7018 and then a 7018AC designed , designated and intended for AC arc. At the novice frendly Home Depot and Lowes Both of which still (My God it's amazing) sell Rod welders
    ( Lincoln AC Buzz box) They have Lincoln Rod in 5 Lb pkg. planely labeled 7818AC
    Well on the initial advise of this thread I had decided to get 6010 for root pass , 7018 to go over that. Well my local Weiller welind store wants $4.93 /per LB X 5 Lb = 25$ + tax for 5 lb of 6010.
    OK The Depot wants $7.98 for 5 lb of Lincoln (hey Lincoln is now NASCAR ***LICENSED*** Whew, I am certainly impressed !! ) 6011 Of course Lowes and the Depot don't have 6010 or "real" 7018. . . . . So at Weiller I didn't spring for 5 lb at $25 for the "root pass rod" recommended by the Pro's. . . .you guys. . . . Went back to the Depot all they have is 6011 ( really an AC rod , huh ? ) And an apperantly bastard ??? 7018AC lincoln rod . OK I have now a Lincoln Precision TIG 175 that does rod in DC , My venerable Legacy Lincoln AC Buzz box 225 has apperantly died ( Secondary resistance is infinate) So for stick I'm just looking at dc ROD.

    This I beam is 4" web X 2 3/4 width. I'm about to just slap a 1" X 2" X 24" patch on top and bottom burn it in with about 5 passes of well cleaned 6013 and not even weld the I Beam at all . Its 4 ft long ( consisting of two 2 foot long pieces butted ) I have a cute little 500 lb rated trolly I wannta put it over my 15" swing LeBlond dualdrive to change the 65 LB four jaw chuck.

    Dave Lawrence

Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •