Post By Ray Behner
Post By JoeE.
MIG welder issue
I have a Hobart Handler that has had about 10-12 10 lb spools of wire through it and it just now beginning to give me some grief. The weld will seem to start fine with a nice sizzle but quickly change to a hiss as the wire glows and balls up at the end. Then it will weld for a little bit and go back to the hiss. Opening the side cover and pressing the trigger, I can see that the feed roller is barely moving. I loosened the tension some but no real change. I cranked the feed control way and suddenly it started to work like it should. Way to fast for me to weld what I working on though so I slowed it back down and still have the problem.Would a worn out liner cause this? As you might imagine, I am hoping for an easy and cheap fix. I've got a project that has to be finished by the end of the week and don't have time to tear into it, not that I would know what I was doing. Anybody have any ideas what could be wrong?
Originally Posted by Gazz
with a mig you got voltage setting and wire feed speed. if you think wire feeding is not consistent then tighten drive roller pressure feeding wire.
.........also a common apprentice error is to curl the mig gun cable too much. hold it as straight as possible. contact tip on mig gun needs changing every so often. sometimes too much debris on end of contact tip. unscrew it and see if it slides on wire freely. if holes appears too big or oval change it. also rusty spool of wire can unwind not too smooth as wire can stick together. check condition of wire. spool usually has a type of brake mechanism so when stopping slack wire does not accumulate. check wire roll spool and see if it turns smooth and not too hard.
The drive feed roller could be gunked up with dirt from the wire. I always use those clip on felts before the feed rolls. One is for cleaning and one for wire lube. I've had countless 30# spools through mine without a new liner or feed rolls.
If it worked like it is supposed to when you cranked the wire speed up, do you have a bad or dirty spot in the wire speed dial?
I've run zillions (it seems like) of feet of wire- aluminum, steel, and stainless. Dirty liner is first on my list, followed by worn liner. Worn, to me, doesn't come into play unless I'm running aluminum. The liners I used for aluminum were plastic coated on the inside to prevent the aluminum from contacting the steel liner interior and creating galling. Never used one on any other wire type.
The part where you say "changes to a hiss as the wire glows and balls up" tells me there is too much resistance to the wire trying to feed thru the liner. Tightening the feed rolls down will only fix the problem for so long if the liner is dirty.
Not sure what a liner costs anymore, but before I'd buy a new one, get a can of "electric motor and contact cleaner" or equivalent spray at a autoparts store, remove the welding lead from the feeder and spray the stuff down thru the liner till it runs out the other end. Run a length of wire thru the liner as you have it flooded and see if it comes out dirty. Bet it does. Better of spending 6 dollars for a can of that than whatever amount the liner costs if it turns out you're liner is gummed up with crud.
In my shop I have trouble with rust forming on the outer wraps of wire- from humidity. That will cause problems sooner or later as the rust builds up inside the liner, along with airborne crud that settles on everything.
I had similar issues with some wire that I got when I bought my welder, had been sitting for a while and developed some surface rust spots. I switched to a new spool with no rust and changed out the liner and the issue went away.
This morning before I left to do some errands I checked the machine again and found that drive wheels ooperated nice and smoothly if I removed al tension from them. When I crank down on it, it becomes jerky and there is sort of crunchy sound that seems to be coming from the spool. So I am thinking that spool was would poorly and the machine is having a tough time unrolling it. But then I talked to the welding supply place and he immediately thought the liner was shot from the sound of it. He said to bring it and he would look at it but the replacement liner was only $20 and since it takes me about an hour to go there and back I bought one just to save the trip if I needed it. I will try the electronics cleaner spray fist though. Thanks for your comments!
mig wire feed problems
-Ditto what's been said on liners, already.
Originally Posted by Gazz
-It is wholly easy to permanently kink the liner, by not using care in handling the torch
lead-which then requires liner r & r
-liners are a consumable item
-are you changing the contact tips?
-Generic branded wire spools can have all manner of bad factory winding, that just won't
feed off properly. I can't mention any names, of course--but the initials are Radnor, for one.
You should be able to tell if there's herky-jerky wire spool payoff, while looking at the spool
Thanks again for the comments. Yes, I am changing tips, probably more than I need to. And yes, I am aware of how easy it is to kink the liner. When i made my cart for the welder, I included a cage sort of thing around the area where the cable comes out of the welder to prevent me from bashing into it when I move around within the tight confines of my shop. Also aware of keeping the cable as straight as you can. I have never had a liner go bad so I wasn't sure what the failure mode would be when it did go bad, or if there was something else wrong with the machine.
So this afternoon I removed the liner and hosed it out with electronics contact cleaner and compressed air, put it all back together and tried it. I am quite sure that it is the spool of wire that came from one of those un-nameable places. If I place my finger on the wire between the spool and the feed rollers, I can feel it it jump about and hear it ping as it slips out from under the wire that is on top of it. You can also see that it is all over the place on the spool. Never had that issue either. This spool is about half gone and I'll see how long I can stand it before I trash it and put a new spool on which I also bought this morning. Hopefully, it will just work through the "bad spot" as the first half of the spool was just fine.
blow the liner out with air regular like, you can see the dust come out!
Don't forget to check the guide that feeds the wire directly to the rolls, a bronze looking round with with a entry chamfer and a point on the other end at the rolls----------- take it out of the machine and get a tip cleaner for gas torches to clean it----- I have seen many that look ok to the eye but are packed with dirt from the dust and such off the wire roll------ through the bore of it.
It is a good idea to keep the wire roll covered with a cover at all times as shop dust will collect all over these rolls and they should be stored in a box or cabinet. They have to be clean to be consistent.
Is your spool nut on too tight? I've had this problem before on my SP-175 lincoln. Another problem I have had has been with poorly wound spools. By that, I mean, the wire wasn't rolled straight, but criss-crossed back and forth erratically on the spool allowing the part that is being pulled into the rollers to have to pull from under another strand or two of wire. Just a couple more things to think about.
I apologize for not reading all of your post about the wire pulling from under itself before spouting off. If it truly is, you are better off to trash it and start over with a new roll. Unless you have the patience to unroll enough to untangle it and either cut that off or reroll it back onto the spool.
While I still could make a decent looking weld and that is all that is important with the job I am doing, I really could not stand the sizzle sputter hiss any longer. I changed the liner with no effect. I changed the spool with no effect. I washed the drive wheels with contact cleaner and took the wire guide out and cleaned that. No change. I then decided to loosen the spring loaded nut that the whole spool rotates on. I never mess with it and it has been untouched since I bought the machine some years ago. Well whataya know, it welds okay now.
I guess I now have to figure out what changed in there that I know need to have that nut looser.
I got a brand new MM252 a few months ago and that thing welded like crap. So i started checking around like all of the answers above
Originally Posted by Gazz
and low and behold the spindle nut was too tight. Welds better now since it is a little looser...Bob
Bob Wright Metal Master Fab
Salem, Ohio Birthplace of the Silver and Deming Drill, all others are copies.
I have a Lincoln SP175 Plus. On that machine, it's necessary to remove and replace the nylock nut every time I change the small rolls that I use. I've had the problem of overtightening the nut myself which caused the same symptoms that you had until figured it out.
Originally Posted by Gazz
Originally Posted by Gazz
Sorry I didn't get in on this thread sooner, but I found exactly the same issue with my little Hobie. Mine is the first-generation Hobart Handler- I think they may have referred to it as an 80, but there's no external identification... it's in the same case as their add-on portable wirefeeder unit.
Anyway, long ago, I had problems with the spool setup... plastic pillar sitting on a carriage bolt with a spring and washer, with a nut on top... it wasn't what I'd consider even a 'commercial-grade' piece of engineering.
After fighting it for three-four years, I took all that silly stuff out. I put in a rigid post that the spool fits over... and pardon my recollection, but I made it spin essentially free (I think I used a bearing or bushing of some type).
I decided NOT to use friction on the hub... that seemed silly, because one release of the wire always resulted in a big bird's next in there, and a bunch of junk-wire and cussing. Worse yet, the linear tension on the wire will vary as the wire is consumed. Perhaps not alot, but enough so that I cussed that feeder at regular intervals down the spool.
Oh, and I cussed it every time I had to change (or pull out and untangle that stupid spool.
Instead, I had a block of nylon, and some pieces of scrap steel, and a spring... I made a second post, and on that post, I put a sleeve, with an arm welded to it, and the nylon block on the far end of the arm... the spring pulls the arm such that the block rides against the spool, and I can adjust tension with an adjustment bolt holding the far end of the spring.
Now, to change wire, I just pull back on the arm, lift and toss the old spool, drop in a new spool, and let the arm slap shut. Now I can clip the wire out, pull out a foot or two, and it will NOT come unwound, I can thread it into the feeder, install the wiper clip (mine's made out of an office clippy, by the way), and feed it into the gun.
I never have to adjust tension- after I set it initially, I've never touched it. I occasionally get a worn tip or tight-radius incident that causes the wire to feed improperly. When that happens, I open the unit, cut the wire (arm holds it, so it doesn't birdsnest) drag out the messed up piece, re-feed, and return to burning metal.
I should probably take a photo of this, so it's easier to duplicate, but imagine holding a block of plastic against the WIRE as it sits on the spool... that's all there is to it. Works slick!
friction / brake device on roll of mig wire i usually adjust to bare minimum pressure. the heavier the roll the more slack you can get when you stop welding. with 10 lb and 2 lb spools you need very little friction or brake resistance.
it is just one of those things that need checking occasionally. i have never had to adjust it all that much. sometimes it was a little too tight right from the factory and after loosing a little it stays ok for a long time like usually for years.